South Africa to play four Tests in India later this year

[Dan]

I swear so many people have straight-up forgotten what the South African Test line-up is looking like these days. Spark mentioned ABdV as being the best wicketkeeper-batsman in the world on commentary the other day, when he long ago gave up the gloves to QdK (yes, yes, he 'kept in his last Test but that was only because de Kock was out injured), and now everyone in here are suggesting that Tahir will do well in India.

Tahir's on the outer as far as the selectors are concerned; I suspect he'll tour, but only because Piedt has utterly sucked since returning from his shoulder injury. Harmer is the incumbent and I suspect he'll keep his spot, especially considering the benefits he adds to the tail-end batting.


Bigger question, I suspect, is how Stiaan van Zyl goes as an opener replacing Petersen.

1. van Zyl
2. Elgar
3. du Plessis
4. Amla *
5. de Villiers
6. Duminy
7. de Kock +
8. Philander
9. Harmer
10. Steyn
11. Morkel

Rossouw, Morris, Abbott, Tahir/Peterson would be my squad.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Yeah sa generally always give us a tough time in India, and its never because of the spinners. I don't expect that to change. Steyn and Morkel are the real threat as always.

 

[cnerd123]

I don't know how you can say Dhawan and Rohit are good players of swing. Dhawan did ok in swinging conditions a couple of times (NZ, champions trophy) but his off side game is against good swing bowling is bound to struggle more often than not. He struggles against bounce more for sure, doesn't mean he's good against swing though.

Rohit is flat put poor against good outswing and accurate corridor bowling. The number of times he plays an on their expansive drive and edges begin is infuriating.

I'm with Daemon here, only Vijay is truly good against swing. Rahane too, maybe but he's pretty streaky too.

Rohit is flat out poor against any accurate bowling. He nicks off to deliveries outside off even when it isn't moving. He has no brain. He definitely struggles a lot more against quick bounce and accurate spin.

No one has a good technique outside offstump against swing bowling. That's the ****ing point of swing bowling. The only way you can play it is by playing late or judging when to leave it. Rohit and Rahane have both opened with success against 2 new balls in ODIs in swinging conditions. They have, along with Dhawan, shown the ability to play late and leave the ball alone. Vijay is much better but the three of them are good enough that it isn't a 'weakness'. It's just normal. Good swing troubles every one. It would be a weakness if they were losing 6/4 against Stuart ****ing Binny.

Pujara is pretty solid too. He just hasn't kicked on in Tests yet but he was always the goods in youth cricket and A tours. Only one with a 'problem' is Kohli and he's too good to not address it. We just get the impression that India can't play swing because of MSD and Jadeja ****ing up in the lower order.

 

[OverratedSanity]

No one has a good technique outside offstump against swing bowling. That's the ****ing point of swing bowling.

The **** m8?

 

[cnerd123]

Swing bowling isn't like spin where you can go all VVS Laxman god mode on it. You just don't dominate swing bowling. Especially from Steyn/Philander. A good technique is just being able to survive it and see it out. You make it sound like you want batsmen who are at ease driving on the up against hooping outswingers. No one does that.

Indian batsmen are perfectly fine against swing in that they will not struggle against it any more than your ordinary batsman would. MSD is weak against swing. Rohit/Rahane/Dhawan are not. Just because it's difficult to play doesn't make it a weakness. You can't just have any bowler rock up and move the ball about in order to bowl India out. They are better than that.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Where did I say I want that? I want the exact opposite. I want them to survive. Like Vijay does. No one else gives me much confidence against a hooping ball.

Saying no one who plays cricket has a good technique against swing is dumb.

 

[cnerd123]

I swear so many people have straight-up forgotten what the South African Test line-up is looking like these days. Spark mentioned ABdV as being the best wicketkeeper-batsman in the world on commentary the other day, when he long ago gave up the gloves to QdK (yes, yes, he 'kept in his last Test but that was only because de Kock was out injured), and now everyone in here are suggesting that Tahir will do well in India.

Tahir's on the outer as far as the selectors are concerned; I suspect he'll tour, but only because Piedt has utterly sucked since returning from his shoulder injury. Harmer is the incumbent and I suspect he'll keep his spot, especially considering the benefits he adds to the tail-end batting.


Bigger question, I suspect, is how Stiaan van Zyl goes as an opener replacing Petersen.

1. van Zyl
2. Elgar
3. du Plessis
4. Amla *
5. de Villiers
6. Duminy
7. de Kock +
8. Philander
9. Harmer
10. Steyn
11. Morkel

Rossouw, Morris, Abbott, Tahir/Peterson would be my squad.

I think they will pick Tahir for the first Test. Harmer has only played the one match and that too against WI. Piedt would have been first choice I reckon, but based on recent ODI success + Indian conditions + quality of opposition, I think they're likely to go back to Tahir for atleast the first Test. Not going to give a rookie offspinner the second Test of his career in India.

 

[cnerd123]

Where did I say I want that? I want the exact opposite. I want them to survive. Like Vijay does. No one else gives me much confidence against a hooping ball.

Saying no one who plays cricket has a good technique against swing is dumb.

You've already accepted that Dhawan, Rahane and Rohit can all survive against swing if they apply themselves. Isn't that satisfactory? What more do you want from them? How is swing bowling still a weakness if these three have already proven they can handle it? I mean, they've all survived the new ball and scored runs opening the batting in England, NZ and Aus. You don't manage that if you are weak against swing bowling.

A weakness is MSD against swing, or Raina/Yuvraj against the short ball, or even Rogers against offspin from around the wicket. A weakness makes it feel like a wicket is inevitable. The Indian batting in general have done enough to show that this isn't the case when the ball is hooping about. They have handled swing as well as anyone could. I don't think it's fair to label them as weak against swing.

 

[Daemon]

No one has a good technique outside offstump against swing bowling.

The only way you can play it is by playing late or judging when to leave it.

this is precisely what we're arguing they lack..

 

[cnerd123]

But they literally spent the last year and a half showing us the exact opposite wtf

 

[Daemon]

Maybe those last 3 tests against England left a worse impression on me

 

[OverratedSanity]

Australia isn't a place where swing is a big test for batsmen.

Anyway, Rohit didn't do squat against the new ball in NZ, SA and Eng. Zero confidence in him. Dhawan did well in NZ and that's it

A better example of surviving the new ball is Pujara, who's done that several times when the ball was swinging. Just failed to kick on. So in our top 6, only Vijay and to a lesser extent Rahane and Pujara have shown they can survive the swinging ball with a bit of conviction. The rest have either been complete bunnies (Kohli, rohit) or patchy as **** (dhawan). That's just not anywhere close to being good enough, especially when you have Dhoni and Jadeja to come.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The Indian batting in general have done enough to show that this isn't the case when the ball is hooping about. They have handled swing as well as anyone could

**** no. No. Way. No.

 

[cnerd123]

Name a batting lineup that looks significantly more convincing against swing than Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit/Rahul, Saha.

3 of those are good (Vijay Pujara Rahane), Dhawan is patchy, and Rohit isn't great but doesn't have a glaring weakness against movement - his glaring weakness is just tight bowling in general. Rahul and Saha unproven, I'll give you that. Overall though, not many sides are fielding better batting lineups than that. You shouldn't look at these names and go "Hmm...weak against swing". They're just normal. Not strong but not weak.

 

[OverratedSanity]

But you said they bat well against swing. Now you've come down to saying they're merely not weak. Make Up your mind ***** ffs.

 

[Furball]

Name a batting lineup that looks significantly more convincing against swing than Dhawan, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit/Rahul, Saha.

Did you not catch the England series last year when they repeatedly collapsed in a heap?

 

[Jono]

****, looking forward to this.

 

[Marius]

I think they will pick Tahir for the first Test. Harmer has only played the one match and that too against WI. Piedt would have been first choice I reckon, but based on recent ODI success + Indian conditions + quality of opposition, I think they're likely to go back to Tahir for atleast the first Test. Not going to give a rookie offspinner the second Test of his career in India.

I doubt it. Tahir has had his chance in Tests, and blown it. Great ODI spinner but can hardly make it land on the square in test matches.

I like the team suggested by Dan, but only problem is there are only three players of colour in that side, not sure it'll fly politically, unfortunately.

But we've got a series against Bangladesh coming up before that, which will give us a clue to what the selectors are thinking.

Stephen Cook may be a left-field selection to open the batting, and I think Kagiso Rabada and Temba Bavuma will both go on tour.

 

[cnerd123]

But you said they bat well against swing. Now you've come down to saying they're merely not weak. Make Up your mind ***** ffs.

Lol

They play swing as well as anyone, lets put it that way. No batsman in the world is 'good' against swing in the way they can be good against pace or spin. You can't dominate swing bowling (unless maybe if you are McCullum in a good mood).

Swing isn't a weakness for anyone in the current lineup except Kohli. Dhawan is patchy but can play it, the rest have put in good performances in swinging conditions. Weak is how you'd describe MSD and Jadeja. These guys are not weak, even if they sometimes slip up. They have the game to play swing, they just need to apply themselves. That's not a technical issue or a weakness against swing.

You can debate if they are good or merely adequate, but in either case they are not weak

Did you not catch the England series last year when they repeatedly collapsed in a heap?

a) MSD and Jadeja aren't in the team anymore.
b) Dhawan had a bad series but has shown before, and in the WC again, that he can play swing. He just needs to find the right tempo
c) Good bowling is good bowling. Collapsing to Anderson and Broad in England is not a weakness against swing. It's just getting out to good bowling. And Moeen Ali took 19 wickets ffs.


Also regarding Rohit's ability against swing - the Afghanistan bowlers swung it well at 140 clicks and Rohit scored 150 against them. The difference between Afghanistan and Aus/NZ?
1) Discipline
2) Expectations/Match situation

Rohit can't deal with pressure. He can deal with swing. He just needs a release ball every over. If the bowling is good and ties him up, he will inevitably do something stupid and get himself out. Simply facing a moving ball will not make him struggle, unlike it would for MSD or Jadeja.

You can argue this side isn't great against swing, but no way is it a weakness.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Lol

They play swing as well as anyone, lets put it that way. No batsman in the world is 'good' against swing in the way they can be good against pace or spin. You can't dominate swing bowling (unless maybe if you are McCullum in a good mood).

I just can't see what point you're trying to make here when you say no batsman can be good against swing. Can't wrap my head around it. Saying that swing can't be dominated hence no one is 'good' against it is lol.

CBF though. You watch the next time Kohli edges one to slip with an angled vat or when dhawan pokes one to gully or when Rohit drives an outswinger on the up and ****s off as usual.

It's weird, you started the debate by saying Indian batsmen were good against swing. I disagreed and said they were mediocre. Then you responded by saying that I'm wrong because Indian batsman are infact mediocre against swing, not awful. Weird tstl.