South Africa to play four Tests in India later this year

[OverratedSanity]

Nah, I don't agree with this. Indian bowlers will be able to get more wickets on a faster pace assisting track but so will South African pacers. Indian batsmen are tough to get out on spinning tracks. It is easier to get them out for the South African pacers on more helpful wickets. Case in point - there was a test back in the day in India where they prepared a fast track v England and Botham ran through the Indian side for instance.

Lol @ taking a game fro 40 years ago as a relevant example.

Agree with ***** on this. Have been saying it for ages.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't agree that India play swing well, though. That was pretty dumb from *****.

 

[Daemon]

India should just continue producing the pitches we've been producing at home. SA aren't as **** as Aus and WI to capitulate against spin in the SC, but it's certainly our best chance imo. Tahir will be handy considering the pace he bowls at, but you can't negate everyone unless you just prepare roads.

 

[honestbharani]

Don't agree that India play swing well, though. That was pretty dumb from *****.

Well, we were pretty damn good for 3 tests in England.. It was really the 4th and the 5th that ****ed up our batting.

 

[Pratters]

Lol @ taking a game fro 40 years ago as a relevant example.

Agree with ***** on this. Have been saying it for ages.

LOL, maybe you can come up with some examples showing otherwise in last 85 years? India played an ODI v SA at Eden in an ODI where we prepared a green top. We rolled out pretty easily in that one as well.

 

[Spark]

Uh, Lord's last year? There's a Test in SA that applies too. Fairly daft post tbh.

India have done far better on greentops overseas than on flat decks, where they've been regularly hammered.

 

[Pratters]

Would any one seriously advocate us preparing green tops though v SA? They have three pacers usually and I would be far more comfortable trying to make runs on the type of pitches our batsmen are comfortable in and then try out out bowl them with spin. The main issue has been that our spinners have been weaker than they usually have been in history coinciding with a changing of guard in the batting. In India, to win tests, you need 2 if not 3 quality spinners. I would want us to focus on this rather than go for foxy strategies like wanting to flip the advantage by preparing green tops. Indian batsmen rule in India generally and having a green top is hoping the fast bowlers takes wickets by weakening our biggest strength - our batting.

 

[Furball]

Don't greentops in India turn into absolute roads once the sun scorches the layer of grass that's been left on it?

 

[Pratters]

Don't greentops in India turn into absolute roads once the sun scorches the layer of grass that's been left on it?

Depends on the part of India. For instance, Mohali has traditionally been one which can support fast bowling and green tops. Kolkata has humid climate and vegetation thrives in this region. There have been green tops at Eden when they have wanted one. At some places, they can be prepared with the will for it, at others they can't.

 

[Niall]

Hopefully we get some decent crowds, slightly terrified with Sachin retired we will get UAE type empty grounds.

 

[Daemon]

Not sure whether pratters knows what a flat deck is

 

[cnerd123]

That's just not true

Don't agree that India play swing well, though. That was pretty dumb from *****.

Dhawan, Vijay, Rahane, and even Rohit and Saha to some extent have all handled the moving ball very well recently. Kohli got found out, sure, but you could tell it was more of a mental battle and he's not the first batsman to fall under Jimmy's spell. Pujara found starts just couldn't kick on most of the time.

Overall I'd say this XI can handle swinging/seaming conditions quite well. Especially since MSD isn't in the Top 7 anymore.

A dustbowl might work in India's favour, but then again we did lose of lot of wickets to Moeen and Lyon recently, and Panesar/Swann tore through a very similar batting lineup when they visited not too long ago so IDK.

 

[Daemon]

Lyon was hammered all over by India when he last came tbf, barring the last Test.

The type of spin you face in Indian pitches compared to other places is pretty different.

I can't believe it's being seriously suggested we prepare greentops in India for South Africa.

 

[cnerd123]

Oh no I'm not suggesting prepare greentops. Just saying it's a myth that India struggles on greentops the most. Because we don't. Our entire Ranji system consists of swinging havens and all we produce is swing bowlers. Swing isn't our weakness. Pace and Bounce is.

Dustbowls probably the way to go, but even then SA are in with a fair chance. Tahir should go alright and Morkel/Steyn/Philander are all good exponents of reverse swing.

 

[Pratters]

Hopefully we get some decent crowds, slightly terrified with Sachin retired we will get UAE type empty grounds.

Test attendances have reduced a lot in a decade. Even when Sachin was playing we didn't get full capacity at Eden Gardens 4-5 years back, say. That was unimaginable in the 90s. Day games makes it tough to fill grounds today. However, I expect 40% capacity on weekdays, around 60-70% on weekends.

 

[Daemon]

Oh no I'm not suggesting prepare greentops. Just saying it's a myth that India struggles on greentops the most. Because we don't. Our entire Ranji system consists of swinging havens and all we produce is swing bowlers. Swing isn't our weakness. Pace and Bounce is.

Dustbowls probably the way to go, but even then SA are in with a fair chance. Tahir should go alright and Morkel/Steyn/Philander are all good exponents of reverse swing.

Swing is definitely a weakness though imo, but you're probably right saying that we're more susceptible to pace and bounce. You bring up Ranji but have a look at some of the abysmal batting there when the ball starts to do a bit. <150 scores are fairly common.

At the moment I'd say that only Vijay's natural game lets him play swing well. The others really need to apply themselves to do well, like they did in SA, which they don't always do because it's hard to change the way you normally play.

 

[cnerd123]

Nah I disagree. Dhawan, Rahane, Rohit are strokemakers - they need to apply themselves to perform on any wicket that doesn't let them just smack every ball to the fence. They don't have a particular weakness to swing.

Pujara has a good natural game to play swing too. He leave the ball a lot and is quite compact.

Kohli is the only one who probably has issues with it and he's too good for it to be a career-long thing.'


The point of swing bowling is that there is no 100% effective means of blunting it. That's why it's so lethal. No technique can ever handle bowling that makes the ball deviate sharply and late. The Indian batsmen play it reasonably well and I wouldn't say it's a weakness in the way that pace and bounce is.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I don't know how you can say Dhawan and Rohit are good players of swing. Dhawan did ok in swinging conditions a couple of times (NZ, champions trophy) but his off side game is against good swing bowling is bound to struggle more often than not. He struggles against bounce more for sure, doesn't mean he's good against swing though.

Rohit is flat put poor against good outswing and accurate corridor bowling. The number of times he plays an on their expansive drive and edges begin is infuriating.

I'm with Daemon here, only Vijay is truly good against swing. Rahane too, maybe but he's pretty streaky too.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Don't greentops in India turn into absolute roads once the sun scorches the layer of grass that's been left on it?

Depends. Places like Kanpur are nightmares all the way through because if it starts with a bit of grass, even if it gets baked in the heat, it starts cracking up and helps spinners a lot with variable bounce and turn.

Ahmedabad is a track that probably fits your description. If the groundsman leaves grass on it, it's a ridiculously difficult track to bat on for around 50 overs. After that, a total road.

Basin reserve the most notorious one in recent times imo. Bowlers paradise for 2 days, and a complete highway for the rest of the match. As SL and India found out last year.

 

[Daemon]

Might be a good thing there's no game in Mumbai. Wankhade doesn't produce greentops by any stretch but usually has swing on offer in the morning session and decent bounce and carry for a day or two. It breaks down after that and gives assistance to the spinners. Usually the best chance for touring sides to sneak a win.