South Africa team selection

[StephenZA]

The coaches want Mulder to be Jacques Kallis so bad , the media does too ever since he broke into the U19 SA team , the truth is he's nowhere that level of quality and that's okay because few are , what Mulder brings to the table is that he's a handy lower order bat who can offer you control with the ball with the odd wicket or two. The sooner they lower this ridiculous expectation that he's an elite all rounder the better he will play. He's not a kid anymore , he's 27 and yet to play an ODI WC or average above 25 in test cricket because we can't accept his level, which is somewhere between Andrew Hall and Brian McMillan.

I agree that they have been looking for a Kallis replacement but I don't think anybody seriously considers Mulder as a replacement for Kallis.

I think he has the potential to be a Macmillan but he had no time to settle in initially. And in Macmillan's day, there was not anywhere as many potential top 6 batsmen pushing for selection, or top quality bowlers. And big Mac could easily slot into a 6/7 position.

If you look at the last two years Mulder has avg over 40 batting at 6/7 but then was pushed to 3. The problem is there is apparently no place for him at 7. I'm a big fan of having the extra bowling backup but I am wondering if they can't/won't bat Mulder at 6/7 then they must just pick the extra bat. But then they can't play Ngidi ever and I would say we just go in with three seamers and Maharaj. And Maharaj will just bowl his arm off if one of the other 3 break down.

 

[StephenZA]

I will reiterate, if you ask me the biggest problems in the batting is Markram and Beddingham. If they don't score consistently what is there purpose? I would rather see them be replaced by talented youngsters that are given long opportunities to get experience and show their value.

 

[Bahseph]

Mulder himself is not the issue as stated by you. I think he is best suited at 7 whilst providing the back up bowling option. We don’t know who the best number 3 is. They thought it was Stubbs but he is back at 5. It’s a weird state of affairs right now.

 

[SeamUp]

In an ideal world you introduce new players to a core group of players who knows what it takes to succeed at international level.

It started 10 years ago and since then we steadily lost players and haven't been able to replace them. The thing is, Markram and Bavuma know what it takes to succeed internationally who have performed multiple times. The others haven't after a lot of chances or are only just starting to build momentum in their international careers.

It takes some faith but it also takes brutal honesty if players will ever be able to succeed consistently against the best.

People will look at say a Andrew Hudson's average but he scored runs against Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson, Bishop, Waqar & Wasim. Do we back any of the current guys to do that?

 

[SeamUp]

Royalty

 

[StephenZA]

Royalty View attachment 47939

Where is Fanie....

 

[Bahseph]

In an ideal world you introduce new players to a core group of players who knows what it takes to succeed at international level.

It started 10 years ago and since then we steadily lost players and haven't been able to replace them. The thing is, Markram and Bavuma know what it takes to succeed internationally who have performed multiple times. The others haven't after a lot of chances or are only just starting to build momentum in their international careers.

It takes some faith but it also takes brutal honesty if players will ever be able to succeed consistently against the best.

People will look at say a Andrew Hudson's average but he scored runs against Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson, Bishop, Waqar & Wasim. Do we back any of the current guys to do that?

I think Conrad is the most capable of doing that, but he seems to have made up his mind that certain guys will have a long rope. Markram, Stubbs, Mulder are the ones that come to mind. It might have been de Zorzi if Rickelton didn’t force his way in.

 

[StephenZA]

In an ideal world you introduce new players to a core group of players who knows what it takes to succeed at international level.

It started 10 years ago and since then we steadily lost players and haven't been able to replace them. The thing is, Markram and Bavuma know what it takes to succeed internationally who have performed multiple times. The others haven't after a lot of chances or are only just starting to build momentum in their international careers.

It takes some faith but it also takes brutal honesty if players will ever be able to succeed consistently against the best.

People will look at say a Andrew Hudson's average but he scored runs against Ambrose, Walsh, Patterson, Bishop, Waqar & Wasim. Do we back any of the current guys to do that?

I think Bavuma has come good, but I always felt he had the technique and ability, just something never went right. And now he seems to be comfortable and has just improved leaps and bounds. (I wonder what would happen if Bavuma had been around to replace Duminy when Kallis, Smith, ABdV and Faf where around! He may have just been able to learn so much more quickly.)

Markram for me seems to be a player full of talent, but also one or two glaring holes. Which is true for most batsmen, but the ones who succeed are the ones who learn how to deal with the holes in their technique. For whatever reason Markram keeps making the same mistakes, again and again and again... the bowling was great yesterday from Aus, but how many times have we seen Markram stretching out angled bat getting an inside edge into the stumps? And what has he done about that. Or playing with hard hands. If any of those things had improved in the times I had seen him play I would happily keep giving opportunity. But I`m not at all happy about the fact I seem him doing exactly what he has always done.

 

[StephenZA]

I think Conrad is the most capable of doing that, but he seems to have made up his mind that certain guys will have a long rope. Markram, Stubbs, Mulder are the ones that come to mind. It might have been de Zorzi if Rickelton didn’t force his way in.

I want to see de Zorzi open with Rickelton (I know both left handers and people like the L/R combination) but still... And if they must play Markram play him at 3. If the openers can consistently get the shine off the new ball, maybe Markrams aggressive hard hand style coming in at 3 could be a boon...

 

[Bahseph]

Temba always passed the eye test. His issue was looking good and then getting 30-60. Markram is rocks and diamonds at Test level. I honestly don’t think Conrad knows where he wants Stubbs. He just knows he wants him in there. Kyle Verreynne has the most Test tons for us in the last 5 years. I think that stat says all we need to know.

 

[StephenZA]

I haven't watched enough of him bowl, but is Stubbs capable of taking on Markrams bowling role?

 

[StephenZA]

Temba always passed the eye test. His issue was looking good and then getting 30-60. Markram is rocks and diamonds at Test level. I honestly don’t think Conrad knows where he wants Stubbs. He just knows he wants him in there. Kyle Verreynne has the most Test tons for us in the last 5 years. I think that stat says all we need to know.

More rocks than diamonds unfortunately...

 

[SeamUp]

Temba always passed the eye test. His issue was looking good and then getting 30-60. Markram is rocks and diamonds at Test level. I honestly don’t think Conrad knows where he wants Stubbs. He just knows he wants him in there. Kyle Verreynne has the most Test tons for us in the last 5 years. I think that stat says all we need to know.

I think that is fair but just a little worried how things have gone for him of late internationally. I was never sure of the number 3 thing because he never batted there for Warriors and having watched him him he looked a middle order player (hell, a few years ago I didn't think he was a long format player).

I haven't watched enough of him bowl, but is Stubbs capable of taking on Markrams bowling role?

It is one of the weird things that I have seen him keep more than bowl in the last 2 years.

 

[SeamUp]

I think Bavuma has come good, but I always felt he had the technique and ability, just something never went right. And now he seems to be comfortable and has just improved leaps and bounds. (I wonder what would happen if Bavuma had been around to replace Duminy when Kallis, Smith, ABdV and Faf where around! He may have just been able to learn so much more quickly.)

Temba always passed the eye test. His issue was looking good and then getting 30-60. Markram is rocks and diamonds at Test level. I honestly don’t think Conrad knows where he wants Stubbs. He just knows he wants him in there. Kyle Verreynne has the most Test tons for us in the last 5 years. I think that stat says all we need to know.

Also think he had a very good education at the Lions (him & Quinny) working with Neil McKenzie & Alviro Petersen. Last of that old school up-bringing.

 

[Stefan9]

I think Conrad is the most capable of doing that, but he seems to have made up his mind that certain guys will have a long rope. Markram, Stubbs, Mulder are the ones that come to mind. It might have been de Zorzi if Rickelton didn’t force his way in.

Think you can include bedders as one of shuks chosen ones.

 

[Stefan9]

I haven't watched enough of him bowl, but is Stubbs capable of taking on Markrams bowling role?

No. Markram consistently bowled for the titans as a 6 option when he started in white ball cricket. Stubbs has never for any of his sides been more then at best 7th/8th option.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

Temba always passed the eye test. His issue was looking good and then getting 30-60. Markram is rocks and diamonds at Test level. I honestly don’t think Conrad knows where he wants Stubbs. He just knows he wants him in there. Kyle Verreynne has the most Test tons for us in the last 5 years. I think that stat says all we need to know.

I don't believe Markram is an opener , he plays far too loose outside his off stump think he would be great as a middle order player, also there is a quality issue, he is really poor away from home.

17 Test matches away from South Africa he averages 21.88 , that is not good enough .

 

[StephenZA]

I don't believe Markram is an opener , he plays far too loose outside his off stump think he would be great as a middle order player, also there is a quality issue, he is really poor away from home.

17 Test matches away from South Africa he averages 21.88 , that is not good enough .

He doesn't feel like it, but they tried him at four and it didn't seem to work either. A number of us here were calling for it. And then I have seen him hammer spin, until it actually starts spinning and he becomes dreadful. I truly think his hard hands have actually hurt his natural talent. But his just can't seem to ocercome that part of his technique.

 

[StephenZA]

I think that is fair but just a little worried how things have gone for him of late internationally. I was never sure of the number 3 thing because he never batted there for Warriors and having watched him him he looked a middle order player (hell, a few years ago I didn't think he was a long format player).

I`ve been thinking about this all day, do you think Stubbs is good enough for international Tests?

 

[SeamUp]

I`ve been thinking about this all day, do you think Stubbs is good enough for international Tests?

I think he can be & like Brevis needs the right guidance.

I was impressed with his hundreds in Banger and was it in Durban v Sri Lanka?

My concern is these guys are full on in the T20 churn and aren't building encompassing bases in terms of technique and experience in different conditions. So when they face challenges but oh it's okay if I get out which is the attitude T20 brings.