South Africa team selection

[Marius]

AB available in all formats until at least the World Cup.

https://m.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/confirmed-abs-staying-in-tests-20180314

 

[StephenZA]

AB available in all formats until at least the World Cup.

https://m.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/confirmed-abs-staying-in-tests-20180314

Really nice to see... hopefully he plays all the test matches until then.

 

[StephenZA]

So I`m thinking about the SA bowling for the future, maybe 3 years time with the assumption that Steyn and Philander have retired.

Who are our next quicks. I assume a bowling line-up of Rabada, Ngidi, Maharaj and Mulder as 4th seamer. Leaving 1 seamer spot open. (outside subcontinent!)

Olivier (who may be more of a stop gap?)
Dupavillon
Gerald Coetzee

I`m trying to think of guys who have real international potential?

 

[Prince EWS]

Beuran Hendricks seems to have got his mojo back a little bit this season. I rated him really highly back a few years, but then he fell off the wagon a bit with some injury setbacks that he never seem to really recover from. He's been better again this season and I thought initially that might be due to the declining standard of the competition as much as anything else, but he took five against Australia for South Africa A too, and looked pretty good in the brief highlights I saw.

In three years he'll be 30, so he could be a decent stop-gap sort of cricket in between Steyn/Philander and whoever comes through out of the next generation.

 

[Bolo]

3 years is a long time in fast bowler terms. They start young- almost all of our mainstays in recent years debutted at 21 or younger. There is likely to be someone emerging who is yet to play FC/is not yet good in FC who is better than anyone currently playing franchise

 

[StephenZA]

Beuran Hendricks is for me (similar to Olivier) an excellent FC player... possibly hit another level and keep fit he will do alright. Of the players I`ve seen Dupavillon seems the most likely, still young enough. Coetzee looks very promising and still young.

Players of Steyn, Rabada quality are unique and even at 20/21 debuts would already be on the radar. I don't think we can expect many 15/16 year old`s to be in the national setup in 3 years, unless very very good and already known about.

 

[SeamUp]

I'm a little concerned with Dupavillon. Out of the all the young bowlers around he is the only seamer that their franchise would do everything they can to get him playing in the XI. But that's two seasons missed now with minimal bowling. This off-season is massive for him which will lead into a key season for the Dolphins if he can stay fit. At 24/25 you would hope that the injuries start to end. It's bizarre as he wasn't injury prone when he was younger. Can only remember when he broke records at Khaya Majola Week he had to miss the SA Schools game with a slight side strain after KZN Inland probably over bowled him. But if the Dolphins can get him consistently on the park he is the most exciting of the rest there is no doubt.

Dale Steyn 35
Vernon Philander 33

Kagiso Rabada 23
Lungi Ngidi 22
Duanne Olivier 26


I would go with your list Stephen as I what I have seen and the expectations around them they would have the highest ceiling. I do agree with PEWS that B.Hendricks like Olivier potentially be stop-gaps. I think the SA 'A' attack vs Australia in Benoni was spot on.

It isn't the be all and end all but it's good to know who can win games at a lower level. Consistency also counts though as you may get 3 or 4 4-fors but it's just an interesting perspective (someone like Morris).

But in recent years the youngsters who have come in to franchise cricket and taken 5-fors is Dupavillon, Rabada, Nortje, Ngidi , Mulder , Cohen

The below shows why Olivier is where he is now.

5 wicket hauls by season

2017/18
Cobras : Cohen (1)
Warriors : Harmer (3)
Dolphins : Maharaj (2), Engelbrecht (1), Mungroo (1)
Knights : de Lange (1), van Schalkwyk (1), McLaren (1)
Lions : B.Hendricks (1), Phangiso (1), Fortuin (1), Pongolo (1)
Titans : Ngidi (1), Siboto (1), Shamsi (1)


2016/17
Cobras : Paterson (1), Kleinveldt (1), Piedt (1)
Warriors : Nortje (1)
Dolphins : Maharaj (3), Frylinck (2), Muthusamy (1), Subrayen (1)
Knights : Olivier (5), de Lange (2), van Schalkwyk (1), Peterson (1)
Lions : Viljoen (2), Pretorius (2), B.Hendricks (1), Mulder (1)
Titans : von Berg (3), Ngidi (1), Siboto (1), Wiese (1)

2015/16
Cobras : Parnell (3), Piedt (2), Peterson (1), Kleinveldt (1)
Warriors : Harmer (1), Nortje (1), Magala (1), Walters (1)
Dolphins : Maharaj (3), Alexander (2), Dupavillon (1), Savage (1), Tahir (1)
Knights : Olivier (3), Siboto (2), van Schalkwyk (1), du Preez (1)
Lions : Viljoen (4), Pretorius (1), Matshikwe (1)
Titans : Shamsi (5), de Lange (1), Richards (1), Mbhalati (1)


2014/15
Cobras : Paterson (2), Muller (1), Linde (1), Shezi (1)
Warriors : Birch (1)
Dolphins : Abbott (1), Dupavillon (1) , Maharaj (1), Pillans (1), Smit (1)
Knights : Du Preez (1), Dry (1), Coetsee (1)
Lions : Viljoen (4), Rabada (2), Pretorius (1)
Titans : Richards (3), de Lange (1), Mbhalati (1), Wiese (1)

2013/14
Cobras : Piedt (4), B.Hendricks (1), Muller (1), Paterson (1), Kleinveldt (1)
Warriors : Harmer (3) , Parnell (1), Birch (1)
Dolphins : Abbott (3), Dupavillon (1), Smit (1), Maharaj (1), Shamsi (1), Alexander (1)
Knights : Friend (1), Dry (1), Coetsee (1), vd Wath (1)
Lions : Viljoen (2), Tsotsobe (1)
Titans : Wiese (2), von Berg (1)

 

[Bolo]

I don't think Steyn was on anyone's radar until he was almost in the national side? Your radar seems to have a wider reach than mine though. Rabada is a bit of an exception because people were thinking of him as a potential great before he'd even debutted, and he basically was one from match one. Most bowlers aren't that good and don't peak that early. I hope we are adding a rabada in 3 years, but it's more likely that we are adding an ntini, who most of us wouldn't be aware of yet.

 

[Marius]

I don't think Steyn was on anyone's radar until he was almost in the national side? Your radar seems to have a wider reach than mine though. Rabada is a bit of an exception because people were thinking of him as a potential great before he'd even debutted, and he basically was one from match one. Most bowlers aren't that good and don't peak that early. I hope we are adding a rabada in 3 years, but it's more likely that we are adding an ntini, who most of us wouldn't be aware of yet.

Most SA cricket followers became aware of Rabada in the 2014 U/19 World Cup, when he took 6/25 in the final (I certainly did). People who follow it even more closely (like SeamUp) were probably aware of him for longer. He was certainly already identified as a special talent then.

 

[SeamUp]

Most SA cricket followers became aware of Rabada in the 2014 U/19 World Cup, when he took 6/25 in the final (I certainly did). People who follow it even more closely (like SeamUp) were probably aware of him for longer. He was certainly already identified as a special talent then.

Yeah there is no secret that there prospects marked from an early age in the CSA database. But that doesn't mean you won't be making it if you not. Generally you are doing very well if you play 3 u18 weeks and normally 2 is what the good players attend.

de Kock & Mulder were in the Gauteng u19 side when 16 (so both had 3 years). They were marked but Ray Jennings didn't let de Kock have it easy. On his first u19 tour he was only batting 8 and eventually Jennings got him to start maximising his ability. KG Rabada at 16 had an ok u17 week, his two u18 weeks weren't amazing but people knew he had raw pace and talent but lacked consistency (accuracy and speed) and Jennings actually challenged him he needed to show more which included his SA u19 appearances in build up to the world cup. The World Cup was the beginning of the serious hard work showing off. I think it is the part Ray Jennings is sorely missed at that level now.

Steyn went to Coke Week but was playing for the unfashionable Limpopo Province and wasn't picked for any SA Schools side but was immediately put into the Northerns academy and moved to Pretoria when finishing school. Him and AB barely played 5-10 games for Northerns before they got their SA debut.

Markram was another case of not even going to junior weeks but Ray Jennings fought for his involvement in the SA u19 camps ahead of his selection.

It goes both ways. Majority of the best tend to come through this system. Getting into the SA Schools/SA u19 side then SA Academy/Provincial/Franchise team

 

[Bahseph]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we could do way worse than Olivier as a 3rd seamer. Especially if Ngidi and Rabada continue on their upward trajectory. Or in KGs case, just keep going at his current level. Mulder developing into a decent Test allrounder will obviously take pressure off that third seamer.

 

[Bolo]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we could do way worse than Olivier as a 3rd seamer. Especially if Ngidi and Rabada continue on their upward trajectory. Or in KGs case, just keep going at his current level. Mulder developing into a decent Test allrounder will obviously take pressure off that third seamer.

We're extremely spoilt with talent at the moment and are judging players according to a more rigorous set of standards than normal. If you pressed a random reset button on our pace attack and offered me Morkel as a 3rd seamer I'd be crying with joy, but he's nowhere near 3rd best currently. It looks reasonably likely we will have a strong run for some time, and Olivier (if he ever gets a proper run) will suffer in comparison to his peer group, and never be someone we really feel deserves a place. Wouldn't be a bad third seamer and might be a very good one, but we may never know which.

 

[SeamUp]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we could do way worse than Olivier as a 3rd seamer. Especially if Ngidi and Rabada continue on their upward trajectory. Or in KGs case, just keep going at his current level. Mulder developing into a decent Test allrounder will obviously take pressure off that third seamer.

A lot of his success was with de Lange pushing batsmen back and him pitching the ball up at decent enough pace. With KG and Lungi around it should be perfect. Plus he has the ability to bowl long spells and keep coming.

He definitely deserves the chance when it comes again.

 

[GRAB]

Bokako's doing well for someone not taking the typical route - went to an ekasi high school and so wasn't immediately noticed. Eathan Bosch for Dolphins looked unrefined but definitely a player who has the raw material to go far...

 

[Tom Flint]

What about that left armer from the under 19 world cup. Looked brilliant and so consistent over the wicket pushing the ball across the right hander.
The big blonde guy from the other end took most of the wickets but this kid looked the much better bowler

 

[Dendarii]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think we could do way worse than Olivier as a 3rd seamer. Especially if Ngidi and Rabada continue on their upward trajectory. Or in KGs case, just keep going at his current level. Mulder developing into a decent Test allrounder will obviously take pressure off that third seamer.

I think Olivier is probably the best of the seamers not in the current squad (although currently Morris appears to have the slight edge over him), but he is getting judged against impossibly high standards, and I think he suffers a bit in people's minds because of that. I will say that he doesn't instil the same excitement in me that the likes of Rabada or Ngidi do, but could definitely slot in as a workhorse-type bowler. He's certainly done nothing wrong in the tests he has played and probably deserves to get an extended run, although he may have to wait a while for that.

 

[SeamUp]

Bokako's doing well for someone not taking the typical route - went to an ekasi high school and so wasn't immediately noticed. Eathan Bosch for Dolphins looked unrefined but definitely a player who has the raw material to go far...

Haven't seen Bokako. But it sounds like he is a steady sort of bounce bowler. Part of the SA Academy 2017. Warriors needed him and young Sipamla to take the spots of Walters/Gqamane imo

Saw Eathan Bosch bowl a few balls in Ram Slam - he looked to have effortless speed to late 130s and supposedly can bat. Be great to get more all-rounders competing and is part of the SA Academy this winter.

What about that left armer from the under 19 world cup. Looked brilliant and so consistent over the wicket pushing the ball across the right hander.
The big blonde guy from the other end took most of the wickets but this kid looked the much better bowler

Akhona Mnyaka

Was bowling 125-127 - I was expecting a bit more from him myself.

Fraser Jones on the other hand had the ability to rush the batsman and bowled 140 vs NZL (with a technical default of his leg collapsing which shows there is a bit to work with)

Obviously Gerald Coetzee was the stand-out though.

 

[SeamUp]

AB available in all formats until at least the World Cup.

https://m.sport24.co.za/Cricket/Proteas/confirmed-abs-staying-in-tests-20180314

This is the best news in a while for SA Cricket. Gets the uncertainty out the system.

So there 12 tests left before the WC but probably highly unlikely AB plays vs Zimbabwe.

It will be a push for AB/Amla to get to 10 000 test runs as even if they score 100 runs per tests it will leave them just short.

It only makes sense to finish off in big series like India away (4 tests) and England home (5 tests)

CSA couldn't let newbies come in there and will definitely ask the seniors to stay on whatever happens in the WC surely?

 

[StephenZA]

This is the best news in a while for SA Cricket. Gets the uncertainty out the system.

So there 12 tests left before the WC but probably highly unlikely AB plays vs Zimbabwe.

It will be a push for AB/Amla to get to 10 000 test runs as even if they score 100 runs per tests it will leave them just short.

It only makes sense to finish off in big series like India away and England home.

First time I believe they may actually play those Indian and Eng Tests.... a lot may do to how that WC pans out, if they do well (ideally win) then the players may feel on a high and still positive. If we lose badly, they may just throw in the towel at that stage... but that could also spur them on, wanting to end on a high in India and Eng. If politics gets in the way of either I do think that at ABdV will end his career after WC.

 

[Rasimione]

Haven't seen Bokako. But it sounds like he is a steady sort of bounce bowler. Part of the SA Academy 2017. Warriors needed him and young Sipamla to take the spots of Walters/Gqamane imo

Saw Eathan Bosch bowl a few balls in Ram Slam - he looked to have effortless speed to late 130s and supposedly can bat. Be great to get more all-rounders competing and is part of the SA Academy this winter.



Akhona Mnyaka

Was bowling 125-127 - I was expecting a bit more from him myself.

Fraser Jones on the other hand had the ability to rush the batsman and bowled 140 vs NZL (with a technical default of his leg collapsing which shows there is a bit to work with)

Obviously Gerald Coetzee was the stand-out though.

Coetzee impressed me. He swings the ball and I sure like that. Fraser Jones seems to only rely on pace. Thoughts?