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South Africa team selection

SeamUp

International Coach
Test Captaincy

Ideal : Markram

Short-term until we start building the pieces to formulate a strong team : Elgar

My outsider : Maharaj
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Elgar is the definite obvious short term answer.

Markram would seem ideal, but I have gone off him since he lost form and was so hard on himself. I have liked QDK's captaincy, I am unsure about his man management.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
It surprised me how well he did in the limited overs stuff last season. I remember being impressed right at the start in those T20s in India. The team seemed to perform greater than the sum of their parts at times.

Are you in agreement with Smith that the workloads becomes too much captaining Test and ODI ? It is right I guess, especially when you add keeper , key test batsman and limited overs opener.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Workload can be a problem. But I do think that it can depend so much on the character of the player, and the support he has from his team. Both coaching and players. What works for one does not necessarily work for another. If we end with a situation of QDK as captain, then ideally he stays at 6 and is not expected to be the primary engine room of the batting. He adds some cake and lots of topping.

Markram is the classic SA captain. Hard on himself and (probably) his troops expecting high levels constantly, but sometimes forgetting to enjoy himself? I just wonder having a captain that is more free in mind and action, and lives in the moment, might not benefit team morale and allow younger players to function better. It not like the steel won't be around with the likes of Boucher, Smith and Kallis around.
 

Niall

International Coach

Not going to downplay any accusations of racism from non white SA players, but their is an elephant in the room here which neither Smith or Tsoleklie want to say......he been included would have weakened the batting hugely. I know Rudolph had a so-so series, but was their anyone back then seriously suggesting Tsoleklie was on his level batting wise?
 

vcs

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They played Duminy IIRC. Anyway, 2012 was peak SA of that era and AB keeping gave that team amazing balance.
 

Dendarii

International Debutant

Not going to downplay any accusations of racism from non white SA players, but their is an elephant in the room here which neither Smith or Tsoleklie want to say......he been included would have weakened the batting hugely. I know Rudolph had a so-so series, but was their anyone back then seriously suggesting Tsoleklie was on his level batting wise?
I do seem to remember him being in good form with the bat domestically at the time, but I'm not absolutely certain about that, and in any case it still made sense for AB to keep as it gave them more options for selections. However, I do think Tsolekile was a bit hard done by in this situation as if he was picked as the reserve keeper then he should have been the one to replace Boucher and it wasn't good selection policy for him not to so.

But while I have some sympathy for him with respect to that, it's not like he has a spotless career. The match-fixing ban aside, there are other stories I've heard that don't paint him in a favourable light. So his recent comments do come across as though he's trying to change the narrative a bit to reposition himself as an innocent victim in all of this.

That's not me trying to claim that there haven't been problems with racism in South African cricket as enough other non-white cricketers have spoken up. It's just that Tsolekile isn't the most credible of sources for me.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Tsolekile only got added to the squad later. I do think he was unlucky at the time, but there had been a clear idea for de Villers to keep after Boucher retired. But it is not unusual for keeping selection to be mired in controversy. Tsolekile though is creating a false narrative that is unfair to the other players of colour that have had a hard time of it, and some of whom do justifiably have complaints because the whole system is a mess.


Thats is a better article from Telford, but more importantly it is a better explanation from Philander.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member

Lots of fun over the weekend for cricket South Africa.


I just hope when the dust settles we end with a stronger structure. And the players can get out onto the park so we can have some cricket sooner rather than later.
 

MrPrez

International Debutant

Our favourite cricket writer Firdose Moonda is now a racial politics expert too, I see.

Some gems like:

"The implication is that it is his friendship with Smith that has got him the job. Boucher's five trophies in three seasons with the Titans is compared with the three trophies in one season Enoch Nkwe swept in his maiden summer as a franchise coach, even though Boucher has been a franchise coach for longer. Still, the likes of Manack and Prince - himself a franchise coach - have asked why Nkwe is Boucher's deputy?"​

The answer is implied literally one sentence before the question...?


"That incident has come to light again, this time with the allegation that de Villiers blocked Zondo's selection. de Villiers denied that he did but admitted he wanted David Miller in the team instead because the series was on the line and experience was needed. de Villiers called it a "cricketing" decision. The trouble is in the wording.

When selection decisions are made about players of colour, it's about transformation. When selection decision are made about white players, it's about cricket. The insinuation that players of colour cannot be the subject of strategic selections is the same as the one that asks if transformation has to come at the expense of winning. It assumes that excellence and representation are mutually exclusive"​

Using the Zondo vs Miller selection to justify the bolded is just ridiculous. Miller was the experienced player and having such a stance is justifiable. Attributing the decision to race is disingenuous.


We also seem to be entering a territory whereby fringe players not getting much game time on tours is being attributed to racism rather than, well, being fringe players. Which doesn't help the actual narrative.

I'm not for a second claiming that there hasn't been subliminal racism in SA cricket over the years but you've got to make a better argument than that.

I think there also needs to be a discussion around whether quotas could have also played a role - players forcibly being picked for teams based on their skin colour and the senior players, coaches, and captains not giving them opportunities they don't perceive them to be deserving of.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Our favourite cricket writer Firdose Moonda is now a racial politics expert too, I see.
Most of her "cricket" articles have always been about that. I'd be much more likely to give her credit for her knowledge in that area than actual cricket tbh, disagree with her on both topics as I largely do.
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Fidrose has been grinding click bait articles on this stuff for years. She has about as much ability to argue the points in a valid manner or show any expertise, as most of my friends do after their second pint; as they complain in the most indignant and petulant manner, about their most egregious life issues brought on by this most evil of politics.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
When corrupt minded people get into power which has basically happened in all of cricket in SA. But as we all know, it isn't just cricket in SA.

Some of the stuff is behind paywalls now. But we can take from the leadlines.





 

SeamUp

International Coach
More on the potential England white-ball tour to SA

Original plan: England were scheduled to play three ODIs and three T20Is in South Africa from mid-March into April 2021.
Current status: England hope to honour this commitment but now expect to arrive in South Africa in mid-November. The current plans would see them stay in a bubble in Cape Town with half the games to be played in the city and the other half in nearby Paarl.
Likely outcome: Confidence remains high this tour will go ahead despite the political turmoil currently embroiling CSA.
 

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