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South Africa team selection

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I agree on Amla but contingency plans need to be put in place.

I think they happy if Bavuma averages low to mid 30s.

I reckon Jp's position will be under huge pressure and may lose it in England.

They just gave Cook a contract and he deserves but he will be a stop-gap only. Reckon they will want to find a younger replacement in next 12-18 months.
Markram obvious replacement for Cook in the next 18 months, may also be good to bring him into setup sooner rather than later and bat lower down the order initially (like Elgar). I expect that long term deBruyn would be the replacement for Amla`s position. Possibly QDK moves into top 6 and somebody like Jason Smith or Mulder in at 7? Quota balance looks difficult though unless Zonda continues to perform.

The Bavuma versus JP argument for me comes down to giving Bavuma a chance. He had a poor SL series, but has also showed some real steel in crunch situations so if he can avg 40-45 I would be happy. JP has been given plenty of opportunities and is totally hit and miss. Gets one good innings and seems to look good, then has 5 bad innings and gets out in stupid ways on top of that... very over JP needs to go now.
 

Bahseph

State Captain
Bavuma had a tough series against SL and truthfully doesn't convert his starts to big scores, but surely he is still a better long term bet than JP? He looks like he is applying himself for the most part. JP can either be amazing or abysmal at the drop of a hat
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Bavuma had a tough series against SL and truthfully doesn't convert his starts to big scores, but surely he is still a better long term bet than JP? He looks like he is applying himself for the most part. JP can either be amazing or abysmal at the drop of a hat
Certainly if JP got all those chances then Temba deserves it. If TB averages 34-36 they will take it as long as the team is winning but not sure we can accommodate both for much longer.

Double failure for Cook. When a player looks ordinary and fails it does seem to hurt more. But tbf to him he has earned some credit and has no one immediately knocking the door down bar Kuhn.

It is hard to understand how we've been doing so well with at least 2 batsman under pressure all the time.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Just how good is Keshav Maharaj ?

He will be the key to our bowling attack surviving with just 4 bowlers going into the short to medium term.

Spinner situation probably best it's ever been.

Tabraiz Shamsi (slc) - 2nd choice across all formats
Simon Harmer (ros) - Kolpak
Dane Piedt (ros) - looking for a Kolpak
Imran Tahir (rls) - Limted overs specialist
Aaron Phangiso (sla) - Still contracted Limited overs specialist
Shaun von Berg (rls) - big mover this season
Bjorn Fortuin (sla) - big mover this season
Eddie Leie (rls) - Gone quiet
George Linde (sla) - Gone quiet
Prenelan Subrayen (ros) - Hasn't quite lived up to expectations
Kyle Simmonds (sla) - Franchise debut this season & SA Academy in-take
Sean Whitehead (sla) - Former SA u19 recently out of school has to stay patient
Jade de Klerk (sla) - SA u19
Keenan Smith (ros) - SA u19
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Certainly if JP got all those chances then Temba deserves it. If TB averages 34-36 they will take it as long as the team is winning but not sure we can accommodate both for much longer.

Double failure for Cook. When a player looks ordinary and fails it does seem to hurt more. But tbf to him he has earned some credit and has no one immediately knocking the door down bar Kuhn.

It is hard to understand how we've been doing so well with at least 2 batsman under pressure all the time.
Also with Amla not scoring big... really think Elgar and Faf have stood up. And QDK at 7 always helps. Philander and Maharaj have also scored runs.

Its one of the reasons I am wishing for change though even though we are winning. Right now some of the other players are compensating for Cook, Duminy and Bavuma`s inconsistency (and Amla but we not replacing him) but at some stage it is going to hit us hard. I would like us to be proactive and bring in fresh blood sooner rather than later. What happened to Aus recently against us is a good example, players had question marks and it was not until they lost the series against us that they brought in Handscomb and Renshaw. What a difference that`s made.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Just how good is Keshav Maharaj ?

He will be the key to our bowling attack surviving with just 4 bowlers going into the short to medium term.

Spinner situation probably best it's ever been.

Tabraiz Shamsi (slc) - 2nd choice across all formats
Simon Harmer (ros) - Kolpak
Dane Piedt (ros) - looking for a Kolpak
Imran Tahir (rls) - Limted overs specialist
Aaron Phangiso (sla) - Still contracted Limited overs specialist
Shaun von Berg (rls) - big mover this season
Bjorn Fortuin (sla) - big mover this season
Eddie Leie (rls) - Gone quiet
George Linde (sla) - Gone quiet
Prenelan Subrayen (ros) - Hasn't quite lived up to expectations
Kyle Simmonds (sla) - Franchise debut this season & SA Academy in-take
Sean Whitehead (sla) - Former SA u19 recently out of school has to stay patient
Jade de Klerk (sla) - SA u19
Keenan Smith (ros) - SA u19
Maharaj did not bowl great this last innings but took wickets (with some good balls as well) he just gave to many 4 balls.... I think he has got a long rope as overall he has done his job brilliantly. I can`t see us needing an extra spinner in test format anytime soon. But I would probably go with Shamsi anyway because if he is used, it would be in 2 spinner conditions and he could be devastating. Would like more control from him. Will see about Piedt, captaining Cobras may do him some good and keep him in the country (hopefully) as I still think he could contribute to SA cricket.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Maharaj did not bowl great this last innings but took wickets (with some good balls as well) he just gave to many 4 balls.... I think he has got a long rope as overall he has done his job brilliantly. I can`t see us needing an extra spinner in test format anytime soon. But I would probably go with Shamsi anyway because if he is used, it would be in 2 spinner conditions and he could be devastating. Would like more control from him. Will see about Piedt, captaining Cobras may do him some good and keep him in the country (hopefully) as I still think he could contribute to SA cricket.
I think they felt Maharaj had to attack more. That is why I like him so much. He can do all roles. Can spin it when he wants and is accurate enough.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
SA players in CPL

Parnell
Morris
Shamsi
Miller
Leie
Amla

Surprised by Hash. Has the IPL too.
 

Niall

International Coach
Certainly if JP got all those chances then Temba deserves it. If TB averages 34-36 they will take it as long as the team is winning but not sure we can accommodate both for much longer.

Double failure for Cook. When a player looks ordinary and fails it does seem to hurt more. But tbf to him he has earned some credit and has no one immediately knocking the door down bar Kuhn.

It is hard to understand how we've been doing so well with at least 2 batsman under pressure all the time.
Its harsh on Cook, but Saffers could save a lot of hassle if they could find a non white replacement especially as the obvious players next in line for middle order spots seem to be white and its guys like Duminy and to a lesser extent Bavuma who seem shaky.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Its harsh on Cook, but Saffers could save a lot of hassle if they could find a non white replacement especially as the obvious players next in line for middle order spots seem to be white and its guys like Duminy and to a lesser extent Bavuma who seem shaky.
Would be nice but I wouldn't be throwing just anyone in there especially as opening the batting is the hardest job in test cricket especially on our home pitches.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Best convert to the opening role would probably be Bavuma, due to the simplicity of his technique. Else the only other option is Reeza Hendricks and for all his talent he is probably not good enough at Test level.
But there should not really be a problem with regards to quotas to get de Bruyn into the team. The ODI and T20 teams have been doing pretty good overall and take pressure off the test team quotas. I honestly believe that Duminy is still in the team because the selection believe he should be there (particularly with no true all-rounder in the team) and not because of quotas. Personally I think Duminy needs to be replaced, as he has been given enough opportunity and de Bruyn deserves his shot.
 

Bijed

International Regular
From my admittedly not very close following of Duminy's test career, it feels a bit like he does quite well quite often, so it probably always feels a little bit difficult to drop him, though of course his average of 34 shows that he doesn't do enough often enough and after 43 tests that should be grounds enough to replace him if he doesn't perform for the rest of the series.

Can anyone comment on whether Cook's thing of making a few low/average scores but also hitting centuries quite often is a pattern that's been prevalent throughout his FC career? Only if I had to have an opener with a bit of a meh average I'd rather have one who made a lot of 30s or so even if they rarely converted them into bigger scores. Of course, if Cook's just generally better than the alternatives, he deserves his place. Maybe I'm over-complicating the issue, but Amla's coming in at 3 and undoubtedly fine batsmen as he is, he isn't quite the player he was a few years ago and would probably benefit more from not having to face a super-new ball more than he would have previously. Could he drop down to 4, with maybe Faf going in at 3 (I think he did quite well there before his horror run in India?)
 
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StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Can anyone comment on whether Cook's thing of making a few low/average scores but also hitting centuries quite often is a pattern that's been prevalent throughout his FC career? Only if I had to have an opener with a bit of a meh average I'd rather have one who made a lot of 30s or so even if they rarely converted them into bigger scores. Of course, if Cook's just generally better than the alternatives, he deserves his place. Maybe I'm over-complicating the issue, but Amla's coming in at 3 and undoubtedly fine batsmen as he is, he isn't quite the player he was a few years ago and would probably benefit more from not having to face a super-new ball more than he would have previously. Could he drop down to 4, with maybe Faf going in at 3 (I think he did quite well there before his horror run in India?)
Yes Cook tends to be a big scorer or very a low (from what I can remember)... think it has to do with his technique, once he gets his eye in his feet move better and he looks a lot better even with the way he plays the ball. Early on he can be very tentative, strange for an opener.

If Amla must move down to 4 then its because we dropped Duminy and de Bruyn bats at 3 (FC position). I would be reluctant for Amla to not bat at 3 though, he is used to it and I do think its his confidence more than anything causing issues.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
From my admittedly not very close following of Duminy's test career, it feels a bit like he does quite well quite often, so it probably always feels a little bit difficult to drop him, though of course his average of 34 shows that he doesn't do enough often enough and after 43 tests that should be grounds enough to replace him if he doesn't perform for the rest of the series.

Can anyone comment on whether Cook's thing of making a few low/average scores but also hitting centuries quite often is a pattern that's been prevalent throughout his FC career? Only if I had to have an opener with a bit of a meh average I'd rather have one who made a lot of 30s or so even if they rarely converted them into bigger scores. Of course, if Cook's just generally better than the alternatives, he deserves his place. Maybe I'm over-complicating the issue, but Amla's coming in at 3 and undoubtedly fine batsmen as he is, he isn't quite the player he was a few years ago and would probably benefit more from not having to face a super-new ball more than he would have previously. Could he drop down to 4, with maybe Faf going in at 3 (I think he did quite well there before his horror run in India?)
Yes Cook tends to be a big scorer or very a low (from what I can remember)... think it has to do with his technique, once he gets his eye in his feet move better and he looks a lot better even with the way he plays the ball. Early on he can be very tentative, strange for an opener.

If Amla must move down to 4 then its because we dropped Duminy and de Bruyn bats at 3 (FC position). I would be reluctant for Amla to not bat at 3 though, he is used to it and I do think its his confidence more than anything causing issues.
It certainly is an interesting dilemma. On SA pitches openers can fall first ball or very early but often it is the big innings that win matches or save matches.

Reeza Hendricks gets lots of failures but at times seems like he gets lots of beautiful 30s as well and at times he has scored runs on a Wanderers pitch when others have struggled. Peculiar player. I've actually wondered if he could become a number 3 or 4 to replace Duminy. Because I wonder how much keeping Duminy around is because of the frustrations that they know how good he should have been and then in recent times he has played those crucial hundreds + possibly they feel there isn't POC to replace him.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Pleased Dean has said this. I don't think it's being ahead of himself at all anymore. He knows his game and hopefully with the success comes even more focus on the team. I don't think we've officially appointed a vice-captain but it surely is him.

"It hasn't been easy, don't get me wrong," said Elgar in Dunedin on Sunday.

"It's a position that I've always wanted to fulfil and you're determined to do that.

"I'd like to see it as mine now.

"I know a lot can happen, but I'd like to think from what I've done so far that it's my position."

Elgar made significant gains in the ICC Test batting rankings after the first Test and leaped 10 spots to reach a career-best 11th ranking - just seven points behind team-mate AB de Villiers.

"I'm lucky I've had a few past experiences where I've actually started well and I've taken off," said Elgar.

"So I have a few reference points and I've got Faf, who's really on my case a lot lately.

"So it's definitely something mentally that I have to zone in and focus on a little bit more.

"I think the biggest thing is to remain and keep the hunger. If you stop looking at your game and start looking at what the team needs that's going to be a focus point from now on.

"We still have two massive Tests and a big factor for me will be looking to try and contribute."
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Pleased Dean has said this. I don't think it's being ahead of himself at all anymore. He knows his game and hopefully with the success comes even more focus on the team. I don't think we've officially appointed a vice-captain but it surely is him.
Elgar must surely be the next captain.... fits the role well and I can`t see anybody threatening his position in the team. Could give SA a good 5-8 years as captain.
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Elgar must surely be the next captain.... fits the role well and I can`t see anybody threatening his position in the team. Could give SA a good 5-8 years as captain.
Even though only 3 years between Elgar and Faf I can see Elgar lasting a while longer after Faf does move on as he doesn't play all the limited overs stuff so no doubt he will be the next captain and stand-in if required for Faf.

I think responsibility of being a good leader is important in cricket. Lots of decisions are to be made in contrast to other sports.

I like the fact that there are some new leaders around the franchise system and new younger players are getting the responsibility at provincial level for down the line.

Cobras : Dane Piedt (WP : Zubayr Hamza)
Warriors : JJ Smuts & Simon Harmer
Knights : Theunis de Bruyn
Dolphins : Khaya Zondo (KZN : Senuran Muthusamy & Calvin Savage)
Lions : Stephen Cook & Dominic Hendricks (Gauteng : Yaseen Valli)
Titans : Henry Davids & Albie Morkel

But there was time when the better younger players weren't the captains and they are now. Guys like Leus du Plooy, Aiden Markram, Wiaan Mulder, Sibz Makhanya, Tony de Zorzi etc
 

SeamUp

International Coach
Temba speaks

Temba Bavuma was ready for the worst. In the midst of the toughest period in his short international career, when he went seven innings with a highest score of 21 and with South Africa preparing for the return of AB de Villiers, Bavuma accepted he may be the man to make way.

"We all anticipated AB was going to come back sometime. For me, there's not much emotional feeling towards him for pulling out of the Tests for the whole year. He's a world-class player. If I was told to not play because of him, there's nothing I can counter that with," Bavuma had said at a sponsor event in Cape Town on January 24, although by then he knew his place was safe. De Villiers had ruled himself out of Test cricket for the majority of 2017 in an effort to make the 2019 World Cup.

Still, underperforming was no longer acceptable for the first black African batsman to represent the country in the longest format. "I've spoken to people who are quite close to me," Bavuma said "And they keep saying I'm not out of form and that I'm playing well. But my feeling is that you can't be playing well and not scoring runs. I've had time to reflect on the Sri Lankan series, and I don't think there's anything technical that stands out. It's probably more from a mental point of view. That's the biggest thing for me."

Bavuma did some work with South Africa's batting coach and former team-mate Neil McKenzie. "He has been with me from the beginning and probably knows my game better than I do. He's a deep thinker on the game. He's always asking you questions and getting you to think the right things about your game."

Slowly, there was an improvement. Bavuma scored a half-century in a first-class game for the Lions and another in a List A match and although the runs were not raining down, he arrived in New Zealand in better frame of mind and it showed. He struck his first half-century in four months at Dunedin, and shared in a 104-run fifth-wicket stand with Dean Elgar to take South Africa from a slightly shaky 148 for 4 to a more stable 252 for 5. During the match, Elgar said it was the best he had seen Bavuma bat and the man admitted he felt more confident in his own ability.

"I do feel that I was able to get some kind of batting rhythm," Bavuma said in Wellington seven weeks after voicing concerns over his form in Cape Town. "Mentally, it was just being up for the fight, understanding that there will be pressure situations and just trying to find a way to get through those."

The next challenge was pushing on. "Obviously one is never happy, never satisfied with getting a fifty or a sixty, we know that for the team, especially batting in the middle order, we've got to get those big runs to put the team in a strong position. I will just try and build on that and not sleep on what happened in Dunedin."

Batting at No. 6, Bavuma might not always get the opportunity to go big. His value is instead measured in the type of runs he provides and the situations in which he scores them. In Perth, Hobart and Dunedin, Bavuma's efforts came when South Africa needed them the most and although he recognised his contribution to the cause, he remained hard on himself.

"Stats are a big part of cricket, especially as a batter," he said. "At the end of the day, you are judged on your stats. My mentality is always to try and contribute to the team but there is that fine balance of making sure your numbers are also in order. That's probably the most disappointing thing thus far with my international career. I have contributed to the side but probably my numbers don't justify all of that."

After 18 Tests, Bavuma's average is a smidge over 30 and he only has one hundred to his name but he has some time on his side. There are three Test series - the current one in New Zealand, a four-Test tour of England and two matches against Bangladesh at home in September-October - before de Villiers' proposed return and you can be sure no-one is more aware of that than Bavuma.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Telford also did an article.
Bavuma short and sweet gets to bat another day - Times LIVE


In the indoor nets deep in the bowels of the Basin Reserve in Wellington on Tuesday‚ television crews set up their microphones and cameras and awaited the day’s South African press conference victim‚ Temba Bavuma.

The TV types had aimed their devices at a spot that would record footage of someone around 1.8 metres tall. Bavuma stands 19 centimetres shorter than that ...


Happily‚ a suitably diminutive reporter was on hand to serve as Bavuma’s body double and the gizmos were re-angled.
Bavuma is coming across as mature and aware of where he sits at the moment in the team. But do find disturbing the ignoring of de Bruyn as a replacement, even if I would prefer he replaces Duminy.
 

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