Scathing article by Vaughan on Trott

[Jarquis]

Only the ignorant will accuse Trott of cowardice | Cricket By Country | International Cricket Teams

I get on board with a lot of this.

 

[Woodster]

Am I the only one who thinks everyone has massively misconstrued what Trott has said? I get using the words 'nutcase' and 'crazy' probably isn't the greatest idea at any time but in the context he used them he was saying that is what he was/would have been called by others. There are still people out there who barely recognise depression or any mental illness as a genuine illness and the same people proffer the whole macho/bravado nature of competitive sport and who would suggest that he need to toughen up and that to 'run away' is 'madness' or 'weakness' - it wasn't a reflection of how Trott feels himself, or at least it wasn't to me.

Absolutely agree. I cannot understand the sensitivity of some people suggesting that what he said about people thinking he might be 'crazy' or a 'nutcase' is in some obscure way related to people that have suffered with depression! It didn't come across like that at all. There are crazy people in this world, and plenty of nutcases, fact, and the response of some people will be to stare at him in public and think of him along the same lines as those people, exceptionally naïve, but quite possible. That's not to say it's in any reference to those who suffer from depression.

 

[jan]

Is this about people being insensitive to Trott? Or Trott being insensitive to mentally ill people? Or Trott denying he may be mentally ill? Or some people being sensitive about Trott leaving the tour? Especially when he wasnt mentaly ill as he claims now?

Any similar cases from other sports?

#QuestionThreadOver

 

[SteveNZ]

Always struck me as a socially awkward guy in his interviews. Put a guy like that in the spotlight when he is unstable and **** like this is bound to happen imo.

He strikes me as a control freak, which would explain the anxiety and the feeling of helplessness when he wasn't scoring runs. It bears out in the overly methodical manner he goes about his batting, the fact he trains almost obsessively, and previous to the Ashes/months before it was bearing runs and all was good in the world. Cue forward and when he's not producing runs despite the same output of training etc, it feels out of his control and a foreign feeling, and is very hard to live with.

That seems to be the case with what was out of his control as well in the media since he returned post-Brisbane. I'd wager the 'crazy' and 'nutcase' stuff was reaction to what he'd possibly read and heard on the street, and he was at pains to articulate that he was simply burnt out, not depressed which he possibly never saw himself being tagged with and didn't sit comfortably.

His dad, who coaches in Auckland, certainly is of a very similar ilk. Wear whites to matches to coach, a very controlling, almost rigid man who hates things left to chance but can often be detrimental and lacks the people skills of a Lehmann to marry it all up.

I realise this is all guess work from afar but that's my take on it.

 

[theegyptian]

Aggers told a story a while back about how after England had won the Mumbai test in 2012 he'd ran into Trott after the game and Trott rather than celebrating was really down because he hadn't contributed anything to the victory and hadn't been scoring runs so far on the tour.

Now of course it's great that he's pushing himself hard to perform and do better and he feels he needs to contribute - that's what almost certainly has got him to international cricket. But I guess that kind of behaviour also can have its downsides. If you're too contained in your own thoughts and can't be happy unless your performing it's probably going to be a struggle.

Not a criticism of Trott. We're all different and we all have our problems and complexities.

Somehow though he and England need to find a way to make sure this doesn't happen again.

 

[Woodster]

I certainly think due to Trott's very intense focus with cricket (so it seems), whether that's in the middle of an innings in a Test match or in the nets, I imagine it takes a lot more mental effort than someone that has the ability to switch off from the game and even switch off in between overs. Trott comes across as a pretty 'full on' type of sportsman, his obsessive training and not being able to switch off from cricket must surely get intensified during the times when he's not succeeding as he generally has in years gone by.

If the knock-on effect of this then starts disrupting his sleep pattern, not able to relax and only ever thinking of cricket and improving his form it would surely have an adverse effect on his state of mind. Now some will argue everyone deals with this sort of thing at some point when they're out of form or been 'worked out', but everyone is different and reacts and deals with it differently, Trott presumably became even more intense in his preparation and everything to such an extent that mentally he almost just shut down, such is his character.

I don't profess to know much at all about the mental capabilities of individuals, but if there was a type of sportsman that may suffer from a burnout-type issue then someone with Trott's intensity would surely be a likely candidate.

 

[SteveNZ]

Now some will argue everyone deals with this sort of thing at some point when they're out of form or been 'worked out', but everyone is different and reacts and deals with it differently, Trott presumably became even more intense in his preparation and everything to such an extent that mentally he almost just shut down, such is his character.

I would imagine someone like Trott would feel it more intensely than a lot of his peers. His obsessive work ethic leaves nothing to chance, or at least that's possibly how he sees it. He had a lot of success with it in the first few years of his career and I would imagine saw no reason it wouldn't continue to work.

As like you, I'm no expert but whether this is depression, frustration, burnout whatever it is, there's a level of helplessness attributed to situations where you feel a lack of control. Trott's seems situational, whereas Yardy/Trescothick et all might have been different.

I don't feel let down by Trott or lied to or any other feeling others might have, but I do think he's done no favours for depression or other mental-based illnesses by seemingly being in a haste to distance himself from it and using such words as crazy and nutcase. No consultation with a media minder beforehand, by the looks.

And I've had to chop someone from Facebook today, a name that would be fairly well known around here, for posting a link to all this and basically saying 'depression my arse, it's always lack of runs/wickets'. Infuriates me

 

[Jarquis]

I think the line about him not being able to feel happy after a century, because his mindset was such that he was focused on the other 80 runs he needed to score to maintain his average against certain opposition, was particularly eye-opening. That's an unbelievable benchmark to set yourself and it's kinda self-perpetuating because each time he'd outdo himself it would require more next time to match it etc.

 

[Jono]

Only the ignorant will accuse Trott of cowardice | Cricket By Country | International Cricket Teams

I get on board with a lot of this.

"The opaque way that the ECB described Trott's condition has led to many jumping to conclusions, and the snippets of information that we were given by the PR guys talked of a 'long standing stress related condition'.

This was so vague that filling in the gaps was inevitable. For many that was code for depression. Now that Trott has said that he hasn't been struggling with that particular condition people seem to think he has led them on.

Neither Trott nor the ECB have ever used the word depression. That is an assumption that has been made to fill in the information void. Now that we know Trott wasn't depressed there have been further misconceptions."

True.

 

[Jono]

England Cricket News: 'Disappointment' at Vaughan's comments | ESPN Cricinfo

Interesting to see Hoggard agreed with Vaughan though.

 

[Top_Cat]

MARTIN SAMUEL COLUMN: Truth about Jonathan Trott depression is ECB are best spinners of all | Mail Online

Think a few of the journos are more annoyed at what came from ECB rather than at Trott himself. Off-the-record type stuff, the journos been told it's depression basically, and now they feel they've been duped.

Yeah but the journo here is missing a big point; the ECB officials, whilst they might have been arse-covering (read; absolutely probably definitely were), they really couldn't say much until he was evaluated and diagnosed. And, once that happens, they really can't say anything unless Trott himself releases info. What they were told off-the-record is now irrelevant, hurt feelings can deal.

 

[howardj]

Haven't seen the interview, but my initial take was that he used the words nutcase and crazy in the context of this is what the general public think of people with mental illness and I wasn't like that.

In any case, it's my understanding that Trott has no history of mental illness outside of cricket (massive apology if he does). It seems to me that the ECB and Trott at the very least left things deliberately vague at the time (not categorically confirming mental illness but certainly not denying it or providing clarity) to perhaps cover the fact that the Australians had got to Trott and brought down a key man.

Anyway, in the absence of a genuine illness, I think Trott's teammates have every right to feel let down, and the ECB and Trott should not be proud of hiding behind the vale of mental illness or at least leaving things deliberately vague.

 

[Adders]

I would imagine someone like Trott would feel it more intensely than a lot of his peers. His obsessive work ethic leaves nothing to chance, or at least that's possibly how he sees it. He had a lot of success with it in the first few years of his career and I would imagine saw no reason it wouldn't continue to work.

As like you, I'm no expert but whether this is depression, frustration, burnout whatever it is, there's a level of helplessness attributed to situations where you feel a lack of control. Trott's seems situational, whereas Yardy/Trescothick et all might have been different.

I don't feel let down by Trott or lied to or any other feeling others might have, but I do think he's done no favours for depression or other mental-based illnesses by seemingly being in a haste to distance himself from it and using such words as crazy and nutcase. No consultation with a media minder beforehand, by the looks.

And I've had to chop someone from Facebook today, a name that would be fairly well known around here, for posting a link to all this and basically saying 'depression my arse, it's always lack of runs/wickets'. Infuriates me

Just like to say that your posts have been gun in this thread Steve........terrific input.

I made a knee jerk comment yesterday that I was with Vaughan and felt "conned", now that I've had time to think about it that's not the case at all and Vaughans article was probably harsh. As has been pointed out neither the ECB nor Trott ever used the word "depression" and I think it is true we all made a lot of assumptions.

I do still think the Trott interview was poor and it has done nothing for anyone, not Trott, not the ECB and certainly not those that do suffer with debilitating mental health issues. He was either poorly advised or not on his game to make the comments he did.

 

[Spark]

it's my understanding that Trott has no history of mental illness outside of cricket

not seeing how this is relevant at all

 

[howardj]

not seeing how this is relevant at all

To quote Vaughan's article: "we were told Jonathan Trott’s problems in Australia were a stress-related illness he had suffered for years"

You would presumably think if that was the case and he'd suffered for years, it would rear its head outside the cricketing sphere also- otherwise, it's really situational rather than endemic.

 

[howardj]

lol I am sounding like an expert when I'm of course not

 

[SteveNZ]

Just like to say that your posts have been gun in this thread Steve........terrific input.

I made a knee jerk comment yesterday that I was with Vaughan and felt "conned", now that I've had time to think about it that's not the case at all and Vaughans article was probably harsh. As has been pointed out neither the ECB nor Trott ever used the word "depression" and I think it is true we all made a lot of assumptions.

I do still think the Trott interview was poor and it has done nothing for anyone, not Trott, not the ECB and certainly not those that do suffer with debilitating mental health issues. He was either poorly advised or not on his game to make the comments he did.

Thanks mate, it is something I've paid close attention to for professional reasons. Cricketers are a great case study for differing personality types, as is the sport a very interesting study as the loneliest team sport I can think of.

I can't see how Vaughan feels conned, as you say and I think everyone is in agreeance that the interview was poor. Unfortunately in the modern society, we tend to throw our first, often raw reflections out digitally without spending too much time considering it from all angles. Vaughan is paid to do that and may sit back today and be the same as you in that his original viewpoint was harsh.

I'll be interested to see if his team-mates come out and support him, and say they don't feel let down by him - especially someone like KP who isn't in the environment anymore and won't be muzzled. I don't think they should, if Trott truly just thought he couldn't contribute given his mental state, no matter what that was. I'm also of the opinion Swann's exit was not deserving of scorn, but others might disagree and that's a whole other thread.

 

[Jarquis]

Pietersen was apparently the first to notice something was wrong with Trott and urged him to be less demanding of himself so I'd imagine that it'd be unlikely he will come out and lambaste him when what seemingly happened is he continued trying until there was nothing left.

 

[Jono]

SEN asking whether Trott should ever be allowed to play for England again.

Tim Watson calling Trott a coward.

Oh man this is getting horrible over here.

 

[howardj]

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