trundler
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The opposite of Australia in 2018 then
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Runs Scored by Top Batsman After Every Innings in Test Cricket
- Thread starter StatsLance
- Start date
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sachin aside, the guys getting the most love here (Ponting, Lara, Sanga) all have pretty significant differences in home/away averages, and come from countries where this is true for all the best bats. Hope you guys are posting some Jimmy love in the Anderson thread 
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
I think 60 at home and 54 away is a perfectly acceptable difference in averages.Sachin aside, the guys getting the most love here (Ponting, Lara, Sanga) all have pretty significant differences in home/away averages, and come from countries where this is true for all the best bats. Hope you guys are posting some Jimmy love in the Anderson thread
Thought he averaged 50 away. Which is already straining credibility as a criticism tbf.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
4700 runs at an average of 48 is a pretty decent career anyway.Sachin aside, the guys getting the most love here (Ponting, Lara, Sanga) all have pretty significant differences in home/away averages, and come from countries where this is true for all the best bats. Hope you guys are posting some Jimmy love in the Anderson thread
216 wickets at 32 is not the bowling equivalent of that.
No, its not. Partly because they were better players, and partly because Anderson was more of a HTB. But Anderson averaging 30 and a bit % better at home is not fundamentally different to Lara/Ponting averaging 20 and a bit % better. My keen detective's nose, unwaiveringly fair treatment of all, and dedication to absolutely-not-pointless maths tells me anyone giving Anderson grief should be giving each of the others 2/3 as much of the same.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Thing is, Lara averaged 48 overseas and Ponting 46. If a batsman is averaging that overall they're atvg standard. If a bowler is averaging 32 then they're 90s Indian pace standard crap.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
As an Indian, this pains me to say but so true and also HAHA
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
Ponting and Lara are extremely good away bats who have been boosted to atg status by crazy home records.
Anderson is a mediocre away bowler who has been boosted to extremely good by a crazy home record.
The starting point and (to a lesser extent) the magnitude of the boost differ, but the principle is the same.
If you think a large delta between home and away doesn't matter, feel free to give Jimmy his props. If you think it does, apply it to guys like Lara and Ponting as well.
A few runs of lattitude is fine in my book... could just be a quirk of circumstances. But there are a lot of runs sitting between mid to late 40s and some of the guys averaging mid 50s from similar eras.
Anderson is a mediocre away bowler who has been boosted to extremely good by a crazy home record.
The starting point and (to a lesser extent) the magnitude of the boost differ, but the principle is the same.
If you think a large delta between home and away doesn't matter, feel free to give Jimmy his props. If you think it does, apply it to guys like Lara and Ponting as well.
A few runs of lattitude is fine in my book... could just be a quirk of circumstances. But there are a lot of runs sitting between mid to late 40s and some of the guys averaging mid 50s from similar eras.
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
Shockingly thats one of the reasons I rate Tendulkar ahead of both of them.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jimmy's delta is 8 runs between home and away, which means away his average is 33.3% worse than his home average. Jimmy's home average is only just ATG. Jimmy's away average is terrible.
Lara's delta is 11 runs between home and away, which means his away average is 19% worse than his home average. Lara's home average is ATG. Lara's away average is... also ATG, or very close to it.
The difference between the examples is night and day. Anderson is far closer to David Warner than Brian Lara or Ricky Ponting.
This is not how maths works.
11(delta)/58 (away average) is how you are calculating lara's difference of 19%
8/24 (home average) is how you are calculating jimmys of 33%. This number is 25% if you are using away. Use either away or home for both; anything else is just butchering the rules of math. At 19/33 you might be justified in assessing the players in different ways, but 19/25 is getting way too close... either neither of these deltas count for much, or they both do. And Ponting is even closer.
Warner is 32/66 (48%) according to the way you the way you are calculating it. 19, 20ish and 25 are somewhat comparable. 48 is not.
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
This is such a silly argument. I rate Lara the best test batsman I have seen. Sachin a bit below that. Ponting well below that.
And I rate Anderson as a great bowler, the tier below ATG for me.
And I rate Anderson as a great bowler, the tier below ATG for me.
stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I calculated both using home averages. If I used away averages for Lara it would come in at 23%.
But it makes sense to use home averages as the base point because batting at home is supposedly easier for critics who denigrate a player for their away performances (myself included).
If you use away performances as the base line then things look more even for Jimmy but the problem there is that a bowling average of 32 is barely international standard, while for the majority of Lara's career a batting average of 48 would have put a player into the top 5 batsmen worldwide.
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stephen
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Anderson from 08 averaged 22.59 at home and 30 away/ neutral. That's a gap of approximately 7.5 runs. It's ATG figures at home and Srinath figures away.
_00_deathscar
International Regular
Funnily enough, a ~7.5 run gap is also Srinath's record home (26.61) and away (33.76 - Anderson's overall away (not including neutral) record since debut is 33.36).
If we start splicing things up, taking away Srinath's first two years and his last year where he was wretched/past it, he has a pretty respectable record too.
49 tests, 197 wickets, 27.87 overall average with 25.87 at home and 29.97 away.
Difference also being that Srinath played just under 50% of his games at home, while Anderson (since debut, not since 08) plays nearly 60% of his games at home as opposed to away/neutral.*
*Anderson has a pretty gun record in UAE (neutral) to be fair but it's 6 tests only. If Anderson had a more even record with regards to home/away matches played, he'd probably be averaging another ~2 runs or so higher overall.
Are those claiming Anderson is ATG/Courtney Walsh level ready to put Ashwin and Jadeja up there too out of curiosity?
In short, stop rating Jimmy up there with Courtney Walsh. Good/great/whatever bowler, but a tier below Walsh please.
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Ya, fair play.
The question for me is do we regard 19 (lara) or 21 (ponting) as fundamentally different to 33 fot jimmy?
It is not a question of comparing actual quality. They are atgs in my book, and jimmy is not. But we do need to apply the same principle to both., even if the magnitude differs.