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Runs Scored by Top Batsman After Every Innings in Test Cricket

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
Sangakkara was definitely better than Dravid and Younis but less sure on whether he was better than Ponting. Imo, he probably was simply because he seemingly kept getting better and better as a batsman. But **** me, he got to bash minnows a lot, which makes simple a vs b comparison of career averages/peak averages very difficult. His numbers are difficult to compare with the other ATGs of the era imo like Daemon said.
Yea, and I know Sanga had an insane 'peak' too (average of 70-odd in quite a few tests after giving up the gloves) but Ponting's peak was SCARY good even if statistically it may or may not have been 70+ (can't remember now, I think it touched 70+).

I find Sanga hard to rate as well - I'd definitely have Ponting ahead, but Sanga probably ahead (as a batsman only) of the next tier of Kallis (another one that is a statistical monster), Dravid, Younis etc.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Yea, and I know Sanga had an insane 'peak' too (average of 70-odd in quite a few tests after giving up the gloves) but Ponting's peak was SCARY good even if statistically it may or may not have been 70+ (can't remember now, I think it touched 70+).

I find Sanga hard to rate as well - I'd definitely have Ponting ahead, but Sanga probably ahead (as a batsman only) of the next tier of Kallis (another one that is a statistical monster), Dravid, Younis etc.
You have Kallis in the same tier as Dravid and Younis?

ftr am Aussie and have Sanga slightly above Ponting. Then again I have Murali ahead of Warne so maybe I’m not representative of Aussie posters here.
 

vcs

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Did Sangakkara and Kallis really bash minnows that much more than Sachin? Sachin also racked up loads of runs vs. Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. I dunno, as time progresses, it's getting harder and harder for me to take points away from those two guys for scoring lots of runs in a batting friendly era. Playing devil's advocate here, but shouldn't they get some credit for not having a decline at the end of their career?
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
Sanga, Kallis and Ponting are in same league. I don't think anyone thinks there is gulf between any 2 of those 3. Lara and Tendulkar do get rated ahead of both of them though and that may have to do with the fact that they scored heavily in tougher decade of 90s and therefore perceived as more accomplished.
 

OverratedSanity

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Did Sangakkara and Kallis really bash minnows that much more than Sachin? Sachin also racked up loads of runs vs. Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. I dunno, as time progresses, it's getting harder and harder for me to take points away from those two guys for scoring lots of runs in a batting friendly era. Playing devil's advocate here, but shouldn't they get some credit for not having a decline at the end of their career?
Sachin definitely did his fair share of ban/zim bashing too no doubt. Sanga's stands out a bit more because its a much bigger proportion of his matches. Literally 20% of his total runs which is significant.

I dont think Sanga's peak actually came in that easy of an era though. Lots of very good bowling attacks/tough conditions in 2007-2014
 

vcs

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Sanga got a high proportion of matches at home and in Asia. Again, that's something he couldn't control because he played for SL, so he had fewer and shorter series in SENA countries.
 

StatsLance

Cricket Spectator
Kumar Sangakkara's Test Stats

OpponentSpanMatchesInningsNot OutRunsHighest ScoreAverageBall FacedStrike RateCenturyHalf Century
v England2001-201422401156815240.2331347.3239
v Australia2004-20121121187819243.9180948.5317
v South Africa2000-201417320153428747.93271456.5237
v New Zealand2003-20151221388720349.27147760.0542
v India2001-201517282135221952263351.3452
v West Indies2001-201012192918157*54181850.4935
v Pakistan2002-201523456291123074.64533154.61012
v Zimbabwe2001-200456053627089.3374571.9421
v Bangladesh2001-201415212181631995.57304259.6977
 

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
Did Sangakkara and Kallis really bash minnows that much more than Sachin? Sachin also racked up loads of runs vs. Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. I dunno, as time progresses, it's getting harder and harder for me to take points away from those two guys for scoring lots of runs in a batting friendly era. Playing devil's advocate here, but shouldn't they get some credit for not having a decline at the end of their career?
Zimbabwe weren't really minnows between 1992-2002 when Sachin played them. And most CERTAINLY not to the same extent that Bangladesh were when Sanga (and Sachin and others) went against them. If we are to consider them minnows, then West Indies post some time in mid to late 2000s should probably also be considered minnows (until somewhat recently anyway).

Even if you do consider them minnows, Sachin played 16 tests vs Bangaladesh and Zimbabwe, 8% of his total matches.
 
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_00_deathscar

International Debutant
You have Kallis in the same tier as Dravid and Younis?
I don't know to be honest - depends when you ask me.

I think Sachin and Lara are ahead.
Ponting is clearly third.

Then Sanga and maybe Kallis.

Then Dravid and Younis. I find it hard to rate Dravid - I remember a LOT of insane innings which makes me want to put him in the Sanga/Kallis tier but if you look at him statistically, he has a lot of holes. So I'm not sure if that's nostalgia/India bias coming into play making me want to rate him higher or if statistics don't tell the full story.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
with 90s Zim, there were often times when our spinners were made to look like minnows in India by Andy Flower.
 

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
Lara and Tendulkar do get rated ahead of both of them though and that may have to do with the fact that they scored heavily in tougher decade of 90s and therefore perceived as more accomplished.
Yea if anything, Sachin didn't make the best of the 2000s when conditions were better and everyone was cashing in. Obviously there were other circumstances (age, injuries, change of style of play as a result etc) but he was averaging close to 60 in the 90s when everyone else was just around 50, if that.
But he was doing 50-55 in the 2000s when everyone else was going 55 and even 60+.
 

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
with 90s Zim, there were often times when our spinners were made to look like minnows in India by Andy Flower.
Yea apart from India having a (generally) great home record, there was definitely a period when there wasn't THAT huge a gulf between India and Zimbabwe to be honest.
Our 'filler' players were definitely better I suppose and we had Sachin, but Flower + Houghton + other Flower (decent enough) + Streak wasn't a bad team at all. Certainly not comparable to Bangladesh when they first came on the scene.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
I don't know to be honest - depends when you ask me.

I think Sachin and Lara are ahead.
Ponting is clearly third.

Then Sanga and maybe Kallis.

Then Dravid and Younis. I find it hard to rate Dravid - I remember a LOT of insane innings which makes me want to put him in the Sanga/Kallis tier but if you look at him statistically, he has a lot of holes. So I'm not sure if that's nostalgia/India bias coming into play making me want to rate him higher or if statistics don't tell the full story.
Pretty much my thoughts on this.

Lara - Sachin
Ponting
Sanga - Kallis
Younis - Dravid
 

vcs

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Pretty much my thoughts on this.

Lara - Sachin
Ponting
Sanga - Kallis
Younis - Dravid
Think this is a pretty fair to split them into tiers. Which tiers do we think Smith/Kohli/Williamson/Root will end up in?
 

_00_deathscar

International Debutant
Think this is a pretty fair to split them into tiers. Which tiers do we think Smith/Kohli/Williamson/Root will end up in?
Root at this point would be lucky to get into the Dravid tier. Don’t think he’ll even make that.

Smith would have to screw up big time not to be at least Lara/Sachin, maybe even higher.
Kohli somewhere around the Ponting/Sanga/Kallis tier - hard to say.
Same for Williamson.

But they all still have lots of time and things change quickly.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
Yea apart from India having a (generally) great home record, there was definitely a period when there wasn't THAT huge a gulf between India and Zimbabwe to be honest.
Our 'filler' players were definitely better I suppose and we had Sachin, but Flower + Houghton + other Flower (decent enough) + Streak wasn't a bad team at all. Certainly not comparable to Bangladesh when they first came on the scene.
Murray Goodwin >> other Flower
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sangakkara is underrated and ranked below Ponting from the partisan Australian perspective, but not across the cricket world as a whole. For instance, if we look at the recent thread on the top 5 cricketers of the last 20 years, I'm fairly sure Sangakkara was in the top 5 overall and got more votes than Ponting, particularly if you exclude Australian voters.
I guess it's not just from the partisan Australian perspective, going by everyone else's comments here.

Long more closely at his stats I see just how much Bangladesh and Zimbabwe inflate his record. I didn't realise quite how many runs he scored against them.
 

Bolo.

International Vice-Captain
Zimbabwe weren't really minnows between 1992-2002 when Sachin played them. And most CERTAINLY not to the same extent that Bangladesh were when Sanga (and Sachin and others) went against them. If we are to consider them minnows, then West Indies post some time in mid to late 2000s should probably also be considered minnows (until somewhat recently anyway).

Even if you do consider them minnows, Sachin played 16 tests vs Bangaladesh and Zimbabwe, 8% of his total matches.
Zim werent really minnows on account of their batting strength and depth. Their bowling wasn't too much to speak of. Streak was about 3.5 wpm @ 28, which would make him marginal for most decent sides as a pure bowler. After him, I think everyone who played more than a few matches was going at 35+, and while some of them weren't too bad cos they could hold a bat, they are minnowish selections as bowlers.
 

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