Revisiting 80s WI vs 2000s Aus

[subshakerz]

Sure, I am not saying Aus will win every time. Just that they had the type of bowlers that WI hated most. They would enjoy Lillee and Thompson more than McGrath and Warne.

Yeah I still think WI bowlers do better.

 

[subshakerz]

I already stated each team would win by a single test at home vs the other. In Australia I'd expect Australia to win 2-1 and I'd expect the WI to do the same in the WI. So overall 3-3. Neither team is dominating or white washing the other. That's utter bs if anyone thinks that. No team came remotely close to white washing either team.

I expect WI to win 2-1 in Australia and 3-1 in WI.

Any pitch that is flat will be a draw. Anything with a bit of life automatically favors WI and Australia win a test with McWarne clicking together in.beast mode at the same time which may happen once a series.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

It didn't take an elite side to match WI, as long as they had the necessary attack. Australia has that attack

Not sure about that.

Gillespie was an ATVG and the other seamer would either be Kaspa or Lee.
If the Windies could see off McWarne and mental disintegration, the WI could score big runs

If Harris or Clark could be picked instead of Kaspa or Lee the attack would be good enough

 

[capt_Luffy]

Not sure about that.

Gillespie was an ATVG and the other seamer would either be Kaspa or Lee.
If the Windies could see off McWarne and mental disintegration, the WI could score big runs

If Harris or Clark could be picked instead of Kaspa or Lee the attack would be good enough

A turner with Warne/MacGill alongside McGrath and Gillespie will be a Good match

 

[BazBall21]

For Australia to come out on top overall, Warne would need to have an absolute screamer.

 

[Migara]

Not sure about that.

Gillespie was an ATVG and the other seamer would either be Kaspa or Lee.
If the Windies could see off McWarne and mental disintegration, the WI could score big runs

If Harris or Clark could be picked instead of Kaspa or Lee the attack would be good enough

That is a good argument. But the issue is you cannot see off a spinner like Warne. If he feels he is in the groove he will keep bowling and bowling. You cannot simply see off good spinners. That is the exact MO Pakistan used. When Qadir was getting in the groove, he just didn't stop bowling.

 

[BazBall21]

That is a good argument. But the issue is you cannot see off a spinner like Warne. If he feels he is in the groove he will keep bowling and bowling. You cannot simply see off good spinners. That is the exact MO Pakistan used. When Qadir was getting in the groove, he just didn't stop bowling.

WI will attack McGrath and Warne though. They had that type of batting lineup.

 

[andruid]

On dry or dusty wickets it's advantage Australia, but in seam-oriented conditions I would back WI just.

*Insert platitude about Warne struggling in India here*


Anyway, one thing you have to consider is the approach. The 2000s Aussies become world beating, in part because their decision to bw that much more aggressive (but not bazball) with bat and ball. The 80s Windies were the peak performers of an entirely different approach to test cricket.

 

[BazBall21]

*Insert platitude about Warne struggling in India here*


Anyway, one thing you have to consider is the approach. The 2000s Aussies become world beating, in part because their decision to bw that much more aggressive (but not bazball) with bat and ball. The 80s Windies were the peak performers of an entirely different approach to test cricket.

Yeah, though that is referring to the achievements of the two sides. Assessing matchup details is a bit different.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

That is a good argument. But the issue is you cannot see off a spinner like Warne. If he feels he is in the groove he will keep bowling and bowling. You cannot simply see off good spinners. That is the exact MO Pakistan used. When Qadir was getting in the groove, he just didn't stop bowling.

Likewise, if by some miracle Australia saw off Marshall and Holding, the next bowler up for all intents and purposes is an upgraded Ambrose aka Joel Garner. And we know how Australia faired against Curtly. Matter of fact, we know how Warne did vs contemporary WI teams; he had some very good series but overall didn't dominate them.

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah 4 ATG quicks is absurd. Australia didn't do great v a much weaker pace quartet in 05 though I think the strongest version of that team includes the Waugh's. They were both quality bats and would be very important. Mark Waugh was a better player of quality pace than the openers and Gilchrist (albeit I am a fan of Langer v pace).

Junior fell down when it came to piling on ruthless big hundreds and sometimes came unstuck in conditions that demanded attrition (slow low wickets and defensive off-side fields) though he was a skillful player of spin and played a great knock in Bangalore v Kumble.

 

[subshakerz]

Likewise, if by some miracle Australia saw off Marshall and Holding, the next bowler up for all intents and purposes is an upgraded Ambrose aka Joel Garner. And we know how Australia faired against Curtly. Matter of fact, we know how Warne did vs contemporary WI teams; he had some very good series but overall didn't dominate them.

In the Aussies attack Brett Lee or Kaspa were often the release valves. And as mentioned if this takes place in the 2000s, Warne averages over 30 in Aus. He was blunted by the flat pitches especially in the 1st innings. So there will be a lot of pressure on McGrath.

Whereas WI with four quicks will be applying constant pressure.

 

[BazBall21]

WI would smash Lee. He wasn't a great test bowler.

 

[The Sean]

Notwithstanding the discussion around who'd win, which for me is even stevens anyway, but would this contest be between two specific XIs from a moment in time or between two XIs which were broadly representative of the eras in question?

 

[Agonizingly Awkward]

Notwithstanding the discussion around who'd win, which for me is even stevens anyway, but would this contest be between two specific XIs from a moment in time or between two XIs which were broadly representative of the eras in question?

From the discussions in this board it seems the latter

 

[subshakerz]

Notwithstanding the discussion around who'd win, which for me is even stevens anyway, but would this contest be between two specific XIs from a moment in time or between two XIs which were broadly representative of the eras in question?

WI 84:
Haynes
Greenidge
Viv
Richardson
Lloyd
Golmes
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh

Aus 2001:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Martyn
Gilly
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

 

[Coronis]

WI 84:
Haynes
Greenidge
Viv
Richardson
Lloyd
Golmes
Dujon
Marshall
Holding
Garner
Walsh

Aus 2001:
Hayden
Langer
Ponting
Mark Waugh
Steve Waugh
Martyn
Gilly
Warne
Lee
Gillespie
McGrath

1984 Windies - You’d have Harper most of the time rather than Walsh (who was poor then anyway). (Played 10 tests to Walsh’s 5)

Positives - Dujon is batting finely, Gomes and Greenidge are riding high. Pace Trio are in excellent form.
Negatives - Viv is meh.

Lloyd Richardson and Haynes (and Harper) are at about their career level.

2001 Aussies

Positives - Almost every batsmen bar Mark Waugh is on fire (including Gilly).
Negatives - Warne, Gillespie and Lee aren’t really firing. Ponting is crap.

McGrath is McGrathing.

Basically a peak bat side vs a peak bowl side.

 

[subshakerz]

1984 Windies - You’d have Harper most of the time rather than Walsh (who was poor then anyway). (Played 10 tests to Walsh’s 5)

Positives - Dujon is batting finely, Gomes and Greenidge are riding high. Pace Trio are in excellent form.
Negatives - Viv is meh.

Lloyd Richardson and Haynes (and Harper) are at about their career level.

2001 Aussies

Positives - Almost every batsmen bar Mark Waugh is on fire (including Gilly).
Negatives - Warne, Gillespie and Lee aren’t really firing. Ponting is crap.

McGrath is McGrathing.

Basically a peak bat side vs a peak bowl side.

Could also go WI 79 with Kalicharran and Rowe instead of Richardson and Golmes, Murray instead of Dujon and Roberts and Croft instead of Marshall and Walsh.

And the Australia 2007 side was unbelievably strong though last series for McWarne.

 

[Coronis]

Could also go WI 79 with Kalicharran and Rowe instead of Richardson and Golmes, Murray instead of Dujon and Roberts and Croft instead of Marshall and Walsh.

And the Australia 2007 side was unbelievably strong though last series for McWarne.

I’m sure that 01 side must be a record. 7 batsmen having multiple tons in a single year.

 

[subshakerz]

I’m sure that 01 side must be a record. 7 batsmen having multiple tons in a single year.

I remember after they annihilated SA they seemed to be at absolute peak.