Ravindra Jadeja vs Saqlain Mushtaq

[Sunil1z]

Was just about to post this. Jadejas high percentage of home tests ends up giving him a nice 24 bowling average which is totally misleading.

Kind of like Labu averaging 60.

Saqlain also played 65% of his Tests in Asia .But his home numbers are so garbage that he couldn’t take it below 30.

On top of it , he retired mid-series to protect his bowling bowling average from Sehwag.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain played 14 of his 49 tests in SENAW. 28%.

Jadeja played 22 of his 60 tests there. 36%.

Take this with a grain of salt but from memory I think Saqlain played on much flatter Asian wickets on average than Jadeja has. I don't think you can just put a stat like this up as if it disproves anything.

Equating Saqlain's home pitches to Jadeja's in terms of helping spin bowling is a bit dumb

 

[Spark]

I think it’s pretty obvious to anyone remotely objective that both spin friendly home conditions and the Indian lineup being much worse at playing spin are true.

Have seen a fair number of people here and elsewhere struggling to grasp the latter of late tbh

/notobsessed

 

[Sunil1z]

Take this with a grain of salt but from memory I think Saqlain played on much flatter Asian wickets on average than Jadeja has. I don't think you can just put a stat like this up as if it disproves anything.

Equating Saqlain's home pitches to Jadeja's in terms of helping spin bowling is a bit dumb

This is definitely true . But I don’t see people mentioning this fact while mentioning Kohli’s batting average

 

[TheJediBrah]

Saqlain's bowling average is actually higher at home than it was away. Those Pakistan wickets were terrible for bowlers. If it wasn't for Pakistan home umpires he'd be averaging even more

 

[anil1405]

Take this with a grain of salt but from memory I think Saqlain played on much flatter Asian wickets on average than Jadeja has. I don't think you can just put a stat like this up as if it disproves anything.

Equating Saqlain's home pitches to Jadeja's in terms of helping spin bowling is a bit dumb

Sorry to disappoint you but I was just pointing out the mistake in subz post.

 

[honestbharani]

I think conditions are more spin friendly in India since 2013 than it was between 2000 and 2013 but you guys seem to forget the dustbowls we had in the 90s, including the ones where Saqlain took a 5fer in every innings of a series back in 1999.

And I think since the RSA series at home, we have had out and out turners only few times - 2017 Pune, 2021 Ahmedabad 3rd test (Although it was amplified by the pink ball and night effect). I am sure I am missing another one or two but really those have been few and far between.

There is a whole spectrum between the CEO pitches of the 00s to the raging turners though. Which brings me back to my first sentence of this post.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sorry to disappoint you but I was just pointing out the mistake in subz post.

I was aiming more at the general discussion than any particular post

 

[Sunil1z]

The fact that Kohli top scored in WT20 last year despite being in a poor form makes me believe that he wouldn’t have a 3 years slump if India’s wickets were like Australia.

 

[anil1405]

I was aiming more at the general discussion than any particular post

Shouldn't have tagged my post then since your point was totally irrelevant to my point... and I know that Indian pitches now are more spin friendly as compared to the Asian pitches Saqlain played back in his days.

 

[Sunil1z]

Saqlain's bowling average is actually higher at home than it was away. Those Pakistan wickets were terrible for bowlers. If it wasn't for Pakistan home umpires he'd be averaging even more

Saqlain’s away numbers are inflated by playing 11 Tests in IND, SL, BAN and UAE .
Jadeja on the other hand hasn’t even played 5 Tests outside India in Asia.
Indian players overseas average are taking a hit because we play majority of our overseas Test in SENA countries.

 

[honestbharani]

Saqlain's bowling average is actually higher at home than it was away. Those Pakistan wickets were terrible for bowlers. If it wasn't for Pakistan home umpires he'd be averaging even more

Yeah but he got the same dustbowls that apparently Jaddu gets when he bowled in India. And his away average is still so close to Jaddu. ?‍

 

[h_hurricane]

Saqlain also played 65% of his Tests in Asia .But his home numbers are so garbage that he couldn’t take it below 30.

On top of it , he retired mid-series to protect his bowling bowling average from Sehwag.

This brings up another important point. Pakistani players know when to retire, where as Indians do not. Saqlain, and to a lesser extent, Waqar and Akhtar retired young when they were declining. Our players like Kohli, Pujara, Sachin play far too long messing up their stats.

 

[honestbharani]

Shouldn't have tagged my post then since your point was totally irrelevant to my point... and I know that Indian pitches now are more spin friendly as compared to the Asian pitches Saqlain played back in his days.

The pitches Saqlain played on in India were dustbowls. Almost the same level, and perhaps more spin friendly, than anything Jaddu played on except the RSA tests in 2015 and the 2017 Pune pitch.

 

[Sunil1z]

This brings up another important point. Pakistani players know when to retire, where as Indians do not. Saqlain, and to a lesser extent, Waqar and Akhtar retired young when they were declining. Our players like Kohli, Pujara, Sachin play far too long messing up their stats.

Team achievement are more important than stats .
As long as these players help India to win , we shouldn’t be bothered about stats.
Don’t behave like Ramiz Raja ?

 

[TheJediBrah]

Shouldn't have tagged my post then since your point was totally irrelevant to my point... and I know that Indian pitches now are more spin friendly as compared to the Asian pitches Saqlain played back in his days.

ok sorry?

 

[anil1405]

ok sorry?

You should be.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Sorry I saw your posts, and your face

 

[R!TTER]

This brings up another important point. Pakistani players know when to retire, where as Indians do not. Saqlain, and to a lesser extent, Waqar and Akhtar retired young when they were declining. Our players like Kohli, Pujara, Sachin play far too long messing up their stats.

From memory some of them didn't really retire of their own accord, post 2003 there was a massive purge and Waqar was kicked out because of that. Saqi was clearly way past it in 2004 and Shoaib retired due to fitness issues. He was also past it in ODI yet dragged it on till 2011 WC.

As for SRT he played a year in tests past his sell by date, about 6 months in LO format. Nowhere near the likes of Puajara or say Rahane ?

 

[Sunil1z]

Rishabh Pant averages 44 despite playing only 8 Tests in IND and 21 Tests in SENA countries . Has anyone seen this fact being mentioned on this forum that Pant would have averaged 50 if he had played more Tests at home on flat wickets ?