Ravindra Jadeja vs Anil Kumble

[ankitj]

Jadeja's batting is not proven enough yet to overcome their gap in bowling he need to continue it.

What? His batting is more proven than his bowling. Bro shed your biases, look at facts i.e. actual performances. He has dug Indian batting out of holes in Australia and England

 

[subshakerz]

What? His batting is more proven than his bowling. Bro shed your biases, look at facts i.e. actual performances. He has dug Indian batting out of holes in Australia and England

I said the exact same thing is my last post.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yeah that's the thing. Great players are pretty much frontline selections wherever they go, even in conditions less suitable for them. I think the hesitation from the pro-Kumble side is to give the nod to a cricketer who wouldn't be a confirmed place based on either skill alone. I find it hard to believe that either Kumble or Kapil the bowler would be dropped anywhere, even in the present set up.

Kumble would get dropped away, 100%. Ashwin, a similar quality bowler whom you concede, with much better batting ability, can’t make it in.
If Kapil couldn’t bat, theres a chance he’d get dropped at home too but that’s debatable. He’d be one of the first picks away though because of what he brings.
They weren’t great frontline bowlers by any means, they were just the best we had at the time. You’re going on like they’re Murali/Warne and Hadlee/Imran class.

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble would get dropped away, 100%. Ashwin, a similar quality bowler whom you concede, with much better batting ability, can’t make it in.
If Kapil couldn’t bat, theres a chance he’d get dropped at home too but that’s debatable. He’d be one of the first picks away though because of what he brings.
They weren’t great frontline bowlers by any means, they were just the best we had at the time. You’re going on like they’re Murali/Warne and Hadlee/Imran class.

Where would Kumble be dropped? He is better than both Ashwin and Jadeja away from home.

Kapil was actually even better home than away.

 

[Xix2565]

Where would Kumble be dropped? He is better than both Ashwin and Jadeja away from home.

Kapil was actually even better home than away.

Everywhere where you only need one spin option, because India now has 4 good fast bowling options and the other two can bat unlike him. Kapil is more valuable since he can bat but he wouldn't be a frontline bowler anyway. And if we're talking about places with 2+ spin options being viable, Ashwin/Jadeja can actually bat and so he's basically a 3rd option then.

 

[ma1978]

Everywhere where you only need one spin option, because India now has 4 good fast bowling options and the other two can bat unlike him. Kapil is more valuable since he can bat but he wouldn't be a frontline bowler anyway. And if we're talking about places with 2+ spin options being viable, Ashwin/Jadeja can actually bat and so he's basically a 3rd option then.

WTF are you people on about. Kapil was a top ten ranked pace bowler his entire career (and for a large part of it top five). Kumble was the third best spinner in the world for much of his career. I agree Ashwin is a better bowler than Kumble but that’s a very high bar. These are two top cricketers at their primary disciplines.

 

[Xix2565]

WTF are you people on about. Kapil was a top ten ranked pace bowler his entire career (and for a large part of it top five). Kumble was the third best spinner in the world for much of his career. I agree Ashwin is a better bowler than Kumble but that’s a very high bar. These are two top cricketers at their primary disciplines.

Kapil and Kumble aren't unquestionable outliers like Warne/Murali/Imran etc, even within the Indian context. You can only explain away their lack of support overall so far. So in the hypothetical where they are options today, they wouldn't command an automatic spot just because they have competition (Kapil less so).

 

[ma1978]

Kapil and Kumble aren't unquestionable outliers like Warne/Murali/Imran etc, even within the Indian context. You can only explain away their lack of support overall so far. So in the hypothetical where they are options today, they wouldn't command an automatic spot just because they have competition (Kapil less so).

Yes, they are not amongst the top 10 cricketers of all time. That doesn't mean they weren't top tier at their disciplines. Yes, its true that India does not value spin bowling outside of India (why they play Jadeja or Ashwin) and have a surfeit of riches in this area right now.

As far as fast bowling goes, prime Kapil was better than prime Bumrah (ICC ratings etc).

 

[ma1978]

Kapil and Kumble aren't unquestionable outliers like Warne/Murali/Imran etc, even within the Indian context. You can only explain away their lack of support overall so far. So in the hypothetical where they are options today, they wouldn't command an automatic spot just because they have competition (Kapil less so).

Kapil was an outlier in the Indian context. No Indian fast bowler comes close to his peak ICC rating of 877.

 

[_00_deathscar]

Yes, they are not amongst the top 10 cricketers of all time. That doesn't mean they weren't top tier at their disciplines. Yes, its true that India does not value spin bowling outside of India (why they play Jadeja or Ashwin) and have a surfeit of riches in this area right now.

As far as fast bowling goes, prime Kapil was better than prime Bumrah (ICC ratings etc).

Which is literally what subz was talking about...he said they'd never be dropped for home and away tests today so Jadeja/Ashwin don't have that excuse, which is not true. Kapil has much more of a case of not being dropped because a pace bowling all rounder is very valuable and he'd take The Lord's spot, very obviously so. But at home he might be less needed since we will line up with 3+2 - not saying he'd be dropped, but he wouldn't be a shoo in (shoe in?) as one of 2 pacers in the side, given our batting at home is generally stronger too.

Kumble would make up the 3 spinners with Ashwin and Jadeja, but there's a very good chance he wouldn't be picked away.

 

[subshakerz]

Everywhere where you only need one spin option, because India now has 4 good fast bowling options and the other two can bat unlike him. Kapil is more valuable since he can bat but he wouldn't be a frontline bowler anyway. And if we're talking about places with 2+ spin options being viable, Ashwin/Jadeja can actually bat and so he's basically a 3rd option then.

So you would play Jadeja over Kumble in Australia and England?

 

[subshakerz]

Kumble would make up the 3 spinners with Ashwin and Jadeja, but there's a very good chance he wouldn't be picked away.

Guarantee you that an aggressive captain like Kohli would go for his first choice spinner if he thinks he is most capable of getting wickets. Hence why Yadav is often tried at the expense of Ashwin.

 

[Xix2565]

So you would play Jadeja over Kumble in Australia and England?

I mean why would we pick Kumble? What is the case for using him when pacers are more effective and the current Indian side wants to be able to balance the batting and bowling lineups? If you pick him you need someone like Kapil or better to be the 4th seamer, unless you're going to pick one of Ashwin or Jadeja with Kumble. If you pick Jadeja you get more batting without losing too much in the bowling. Kumble's record isn't indicative of a natural superiority anyway so in this case I'll pick the allrounder.

 

[Xix2565]

Guarantee you that an aggressive captain like Kohli would go for his first choice spinner if he thinks he is most capable of getting wickets. Hence why Yadav is often tried at the expense of Ashwin.

Can you please stop making things up for no reason?

 

[ma1978]

Guarantee you that an aggressive captain like Kohli would go for his first choice spinner if he thinks he is most capable of getting wickets. Hence why Yadav is often tried at the expense of Ashwin.

Dafuq? When has that every happened in tests

 

[ma1978]

I mean why would we pick Kumble? What is the case for using him when pacers are more effective and the current Indian side wants to be able to balance the batting and bowling lineups? If you pick him you need someone like Kapil or better to be the 4th seamer, unless you're going to pick one of Ashwin or Jadeja with Kumble. If you pick Jadeja you get more batting without losing too much in the bowling. Kumble's record isn't indicative of a natural superiority anyway so in this case I'll pick the allrounder.

Kapil is no fourth seamer, he's the best pace bowler India has produced and its not that close.

 

[Xix2565]

Not really? Bumrah exists.

 

[ma1978]

Not really? Bumrah exists.

Kapil's peak better than Bumrah's entire career. Better perfromances against top opposition, higher ICC ratings and relative rankings

 

[CricAddict]

Kapil's place is not under question at all. He is the best pacer India has produced and can also bat well.
But Kumble won't be able to win a place over Ashwin or Jadeja since he can't bat. In current era where Bumrah, Shami and Siraj are your best 3 pacers, you need the spinner to definitely bat which is the reason India plays Jadeja over Ashwin away. Kumble won't even be considered in this scenario when Ashwin and Jadeja are both available.

 

[ma1978]

Kapil's place is not under question at all. He is the best pacer India has produced and can also bat well.
But Kumble won't be able to win a place over Ashwin or Jadeja since he can't bat. In current era where Bumrah, Shami and Siraj are your best 3 pacers, you need the spinner to definitely bat which is the reason India plays Jadeja over Ashwin away. Kumble won't even be considered in this scenario when Ashwin and Jadeja are both available.

I agree with this. Does this make Jadeja a better player than Kumbe, I don't know, more better suited to the teams needs.