Rank the 10,000 club

[Spark]

Perth 2008 was as tough as Perth 2004 IMO. Just the Indian side was that much better the second time around.


And @Spark and @Burgey, is it also the reason for all the bushfires and stuff? The drought?

Long story short: yes.

The other factor is the drop in pitches that have removed all life from the MCG and SCG in particular. India got lucky to avoid both McGrath and Warne in the 03 series but they have consistently had super flat decks rolled out for them since the turn of the century.

That's not to say that Indian batsmen are ****, only that their records here are inflated compared to other touring batsmen. CA don't really care who wins when India tour, they only care that they get 5 day tests. It's been quite obvious for some time. And out of the WACA/Gabba and Hobart, the WACA has been the flattest since 00.

Interesting to hear that drop-in pitches have removed all life from the SCG given that it's not a drop-in pitch.

The drop-in at the MCG is rank awful but from what I've read and seen, there's an element to that which is unavoidable simply because of the nature of the soil in the area. The overwhelming factor in flattening pitches in Australia has been the weather and, yes, medium-term climate-change. Not CA greed.

 

[pardus]

Perth 2008 was as tough as Perth 2004 IMO. Just the Indian side was that much better the second time around.


And @Spark and @Burgey, is it also the reason for all the bushfires and stuff? The drought?

I don't think so. Not even close. The bounce at Perth in 2004 ODIs was very reminiscent of how Perth was previously. It was visibly hard to play. I still remember a ball from Heath Streak bouncing at just short of good length and just taking off, brushing Tendulkar's shoulder and helmet. Even technically great batsmen like Tendulkar and Dravid found it extremely challenging to negotiate the bounce. There are pictures of Dravid awkwardly fending off rising deliveries. There's a reason why Dravid and several Indian batsmen were in awe of the bounce. It was just a one off instance. You can dig out match reports about the matches. Everyone explicitly mention the bounce.

 

[TheJediBrah]

It was also well understood in 2000s to early 2010s that India's chances to win increased in place friendly conditions because the batsmen didn't suffer to the same degree that bowlers benefited. India registered several wins on green tops and swinging conditions in that period. So it's quite arbitrary to say India were being saved from pacy pitches for TV revenue.

again, just playing devil's advocate, but green tops and swinging conditions is not the same as pacy/bouncy pitches. Actually very different.

 

[ankitj]

Yes of course, you are right.

 

[Burgey]

Perth 2008 was as tough as Perth 2004 IMO. Just the Indian side was that much better the second time around.


And @Spark and @Burgey, is it also the reason for all the bushfires and stuff? The drought?

There's a number of contributing factors, but the short answer is yes, really. The big drought in the 2000s lasted iirc from about 2000 or 2001 til about 2007 or 08. They called it the Millenium drought - Link to Wiki on it here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought

Edit: reading that, looks like it went til about 2010 in some parts. The bushfires this past summer were also after a long period of drought in the affected areas.

 

[stephen]

Long story short: yes.



Interesting to hear that drop-in pitches have removed all life from the SCG given that it's not a drop-in pitch.

The drop-in at the MCG is rank awful but from what I've read and seen, there's an element to that which is unavoidable simply because of the nature of the soil in the area. The overwhelming factor in flattening pitches in Australia has been the weather and, yes, medium-term climate-change. Not CA greed.

I thought the SCG was a drop in these days and that Brisbane was the only hold out? What's the excuse for it being such a dire wicket these days then? It's certainly lost most of its character over the last two decades.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yeah. Definitely seems to struggle with the idea that Indian cricketers can do well out of their own merit. Can't be too careful while offering praise to Indians in any thread where he or TJB are around. Sensitive lot.

Seriously though when have I ever been anti-Indian players? Can't think of any time tbh

 

[Spark]

There's a number of contributing factors, but the short answer is yes, really. The big drought in the 2000s lasted iirc from about 2000 or 2001 til about 2007 or 08. They called it the Millenium drought - Link to Wiki on it here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought

Edit: reading that, looks like it went til about 2010 in some parts. The bushfires this past summer were also after a long period of drought in the affected areas.

Yeah there was a brief and powerful La Nina that made 2009-2011 very wet in general (which was great news for England, incidentally, when they toured that summer) but otherwise it's been hot and dry as a new norm since 2001.

I thought the SCG was a drop in these days and that Brisbane was the only hold out? What's the excuse for it being such a dire wicket these days then? It's certainly lost most of its character over the last two decades.

Only Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth-Optus are drop-ins of the major Test venues, and of those three only Melbourne is what you'd call a pudding.

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah for the new Perth Stadium, I think they took the soil from the WACA and are kinda artificially simulating similar overhead to ensure the bounce and character remains the same.

 

[Burgey]

Yeah the deck at the new Perth stadium from what I've seen so far has a fair bit of pace and bounce to it, which is nice to see.

 

[Burgey]

Seriously though when have I ever been anti-Indian players? Can't think of any time tbh

You're either with them or agin them. The fact you aren't an Indian supporter makes you horribly biased against them, by definition.

 

[Spark]

Still pissed that the pitch for the India test there got flagged by the ICC. That genuinely made for some of the most consistently entertaining and engaging cricket I've seen in Australia for quite some time outside of Mitchell Johnson specials.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

The Adelaide pitches of today are far more interesting than the old Les Burdett state highways from yesteryear.

Even more so at domestic level where the curators have tended to leave a bit more grass on for the benefit of Chadd Sayers and co

Only unfortunate side effect of that is the lack of real pace in the South Australian attack of recent times. Although with that being said Agar of the Wesley variety bowled a few pretty sharp spells at times last season

 

[honestbharani]

Still pissed that the pitch for the India test there got flagged by the ICC. That genuinely made for some of the most consistently entertaining and engaging cricket I've seen in Australia for quite some time outside of Mitchell Johnson specials.

Well, I suppose post Hughes these things are actually stuff that will worry cricket boards. So I can kinda see that but you also know how much ICC lets flat wickets get by and pounce on any wicket that does anything, really. The Pune wicket in 2018 for instance. Its stupid but on-brand for the ICC.

 

[Spark]

The Adelaide pitches of today are far more interesting than the old Les Burdett state highways from yesteryear.

Even more so at domestic level where the curators have tended to leave a bit more grass on for the benefit of Chadd Sayers and co

Only unfortunate side effect of that is the lack of real pace in the South Australian attack of recent times. Although with that being said Agar of the Wesley variety bowled a few pretty sharp spells at times last season

Yeah I don't think domestic greentops are a great idea for that and other reasons. As a general rule you produce better cricketers at domestic level when bowlers have to work hard for their wickets/bring something extra to the table and batsmen are made to learn/rewarded for learning how to bat long periods of time.

 

[GoodAreasShane]

Yeah I don't think domestic greentops are a great idea for that and other reasons. As a general rule you produce better cricketers at domestic level when bowlers have to work hard for their wickets/bring something extra to the table and batsmen are made to learn/rewarded for learning how to bat long periods of time.

Absolutely. Remember reading an Allan Donald interview at some point where he credited the freeway flat pitches in Bloemfontein for helping develop his craft as a young quick.

Here I tend to think there is too sharp of a difference between domestic and international cricket, except for the MCG witch is usually just a steaming turd all around.

 

[h_hurricane]

Had it not been for poor umpiring, India would have won the 1985-86 series down under, laying to rest some of the debates. Not that Indian batsmen apart from a select few were all that good against bounce and pace in the 90s, but victories such as these create reputations, and teams tend to get a free pass for the next decade or so no matter how they performed.

 

[Burgey]

Still pissed that the pitch for the India test there got flagged by the ICC. That genuinely made for some of the most consistently entertaining and engaging cricket I've seen in Australia for quite some time outside of Mitchell Johnson specials.

Yeah it was quality

 

[Burgey]

Had it not been for poor umpiring, India would have won the 1985-86 series down under, laying to rest some of the debates. Not that Indian batsmen apart from a select few were all that good against bounce and pace in the 90s, but victories such as these create reputations, and teams tend to get a free pass for the next decade or so no matter how they performed.

Have you looked up the Australian side in the 85-86 series though?

 

[h_hurricane]

Have you looked up the Australian side in the 85-86 series though?

It doesn't matter. You can only play what you are up against. First series victory creates reputations. Would have been massive achievement at that time. Similar to the one in 2018-19.