***Official*** South Africa in New Zealand 2017

[Zinzan]

We'd be underway in Auckland just quietly...

 

[banquetbear]

Williamson's record is influenced by being awful initially, and later figuring out ways of keeping his strike rate up and becoming good, if not spectacular. Taylor's record is pretty much the exact opposite in t20 internationals. Bowlers know where to bowl to him, he hasn't developed any new shots. He's not good.

...the numbers are nearly identical. The "record" is nearly identical. Characterizing Taylor as terrible simply isn't true. Terrible players don't end up playing 73 times for New Zealand. If you are going to claim Taylor is "not good" at t20 then make the case with something objective. I'm not inclined to trust your opinion. Every New Zealand batsman has been "figured out". Developing "new shots" is not a pre-requisite to being a great batsman.

RE: Taylor's marginalisation. What "history" are you referring to? There's one instance of poor man management, in which Hesson decided to remove Taylor as captain. I'm not going to disagree that it was handled poorly but to suggest that it's marginalisation is not factual.

The history of Hesson "poorly communicating" with Taylor when Taylor was captain. It was that process of marginalization that eventually lead to the captaincy debacle. To ignore that is to ignore the facts.

The coach chooses his captain. That's how this works.

Strawman. Did I claim that the coach shouldn't pick his captain?

If Taylor decides to walk away to "look after himself"?

Whats with the question mark? If you don't understand what I meant, please feel free to ask for clarification.

Errr, that's entirely his prerogative. It would be disappointing from an NZ perspective but of course he's entitled to do that, as is every player. Unless I'm mistaken, this isn't conscription.

Of course it isn't a conscription. I want to see Ross Taylor playing in New Zealand colours for as long as he is in form and scoring runs. But if we don't see that because of the short-sightedness of the coach and the selection panel I'm entitled to feel p*ssed off at that coach. New Zealand didn't gain anything by leaving Taylor out of this side. If anything we lost quite a bit: we lost momentum, we lost the match.

 

[banquetbear]

Sorry to rain on your statistical parade there buddy, but not sure where you got those stats... Taylor averages 24 in T20Is, not 34, huge difference.

...you are correct: I'm using a monitor with bad resolution and mis-read cricinfo.

 

[CM Punk]

Can't see the game starting, if there's rain around.

Two hrs to ready the pitch after the covers are off

 

[James]

With the way NZ weather is, I'm surprised they haven't looked at roofs on stadiums, i.e. at least at Westpac Stadium and Eden Park.

It's something that is looking like is badly needed.

Sandman

 

[CM Punk]

3 point contest is on, at least something to watch.

 

[straw man]

With the way NZ weather is, I'm surprised they haven't looked at roofs on stadiums, i.e. at least at Westpac Stadium and Eden Park.

It's something that is looking like is badly needed.

I expect it would be enormously expensive, especially to retrofit an existing stadium rather than one that is designed with that in mind from the outset. Would be interested in hearing if NZC have at least looked at it though.

 

[Mike5181]

I guess it's hard to tell based on photos but two hours to get the ground ready seems a bit excessive. It doesn't look particularly bad at all.

 

[James]

I expect it would be enormously expensive, especially to retrofit an existing stadium rather than one that is designed with that in mind from the outset. Would be interested in hearing if NZC have at least looked at it though.

I've been away from NZ for over 10 years now, but friends and family have said there hasn't really been a summer at all. Just rubbish weather after more rubbish weather.

Perhaps if the cost is too high, they could look at better drainage options for the grounds.

 

[straw man]

Wouldn't it be Manu? Taylor could/should would bat 3, especially as Hesson said he wasn't a closer - didn't he?

Whoever said it is right, with a World T20 upcoming Ross needs to be there. I know his record is a bit stinky but he will have a point to prove going forward, and you're picking him in form in the other formats.

If there was a World T20 next week, my side would be Gup Kane Ross Corey Neesham *insertkeeperhere* de Grandhomme Santner Boult Sodhi Southee. And I'd be so tempted to drop Southee for Wheeler, but I find it pointless to suggest as it's never going to happen. Bruce unlucky, but I like the extra bowling option in Jimmy (although needs big work and apparently is doing so)

It's your party Steve and you can select Wheeler ahead of Southee if you want to.

I looked up the schedule and World T20 hasn't yet been confirmed for next year, however there is the Champion's Trophy ODI tournament in June in England. So I guess the ODI side is of more interest than the T20 side right now. That said, my best guess T20 side right now would be:

Phillips
Guptill
Williamson
Taylor
Bruce
CDG/Chapman/Neesham
Anderson
Santner
Sodhi
Southee/Wheeler/Bennett
Boult

Neesham is in my best test and ODI sides but doesn't necessarily make the side. Anderson makes the side if he can bowl.

Phillips chosen as keeper over the other contenders mainly cos he's already debuted. It pushes Taylor down to 4 but I can live with that if he's in good form.

 

[Zinzan]

Can't see the game starting, if there's rain around.

Two hrs to ready the pitch after the covers are off

They'll get a game... just depends how affected... My mate at the gorund might be bang-on about it being a 30-35 a side game with a 5pm start looking likely. Sun is out apparently.

 

[Zinzan]

I've been away from NZ for over 10 years now, but friends and family have said there hasn't really been a summer at all. Just rubbish weather after more rubbish weather.

Perhaps if the cost is too high, they could look at better drainage options for the grounds.

Might be a bit of selective memory going on there James tbf. If you actually look back over the last few years in NZ, and ignore the obvious debacle that is Napier's unfit ground, there's actually been very few washouts.

 

[jcas0167]

...... His figures are comparable with the New Zealand Captain: Kane Williamson has a high score of 73, an average of 36, a strike rate of 122 with 1125 runs. And Taylor has better figures than Williamson in domestic Twenty 20. If Taylor is terrible at t20 then so is the captain. ...
ty.

Presumably they've made a call that they think they can only afford the openers to be 'orthodox' batsman with a strike rate in the 120's (Guptill is 131) then they want more high risk hitters who are closer to 150. They can get away with it against teams with moderate bowling attacks, but the Eden Park game showed how sometimes you need players with a more robust defensive technique like Taylor or a Broom. Munro at 3 seems very optimistic against top attacks.

 

[straw man]

Presumably they've made a call that they think they can only afford the openers to be 'orthodox' batsman with a strike rate in the 120's (Guptill is 131) then they want more high risk hitters who are closer to 150. They can get away with it against teams with moderate bowling attacks, but the Eden Park game showed how sometimes you need players with a more robust defensive technique like Taylor or a Broom. Munro at 3 seems very optimistic against top attacks.

Yeah this is the problem with our icing - while we may feel in T20s (and ODIs too) that Williamson, Taylor, Bruce, Broom, Latham etc don't quite have the strike rate we want, none of our icing even score runs against good bowling so what's the point in them?

I omit Guptill from that group - he is genuinely destructive.

 

[Zinzan]

I've been a fan of Munro. but he needs to give himself a sighter against decent bowling attacks and shorten that enormous bat lift, especially against 140+ pacers who can land a yorker.

 

[Zinzan]

Yeah this is the problem with our icing - while we may feel in T20s (and ODIs too) that Williamson, Taylor, Bruce, Broom, Latham etc don't quite have the strike rate we want, none of our icing even score runs against good bowling so what's the point in them?

I omit Guptill from that group - he is genuinely destructive.

That was apparently with the T20 lineup we had the other day, but the ODI side has enough cake-like players in Latham, KW, Broom & Taylor to carry Munro assuming he comes off like McCullum did which was once every 2-3 knocks... sadly he's been below that of late.

 

[Zinzan]

5.15 start 35 overs a piece.

 

[NZTailender]

I think it's a little early to say that isn't it? I mean he's played some good domestic T20 innings, but hasn't he always been able to do that in NZ domestic T20 level?

That said, I'm not against him getting another crack, especially after the hack slogging we saw on Friday.

IIRC from the admittedly small sample size he got his innings away a lot quicker than he classically does. Point being I think he deserves another go, rather than being written off completely from past performances.

 

[Zinzan]

Got to ask, do they really need another hour and 15 mins... when a 4.45 start could mean a 38-39 over affair? They always seem to lean on the conservative.... I swear the Aussies get things underway more more quickly after rain breaks, Could just be better drainage.

 

[Zinzan]

IIRC from the admittedly small sample size he got his innings away a lot quicker than he classically does. Point being I think he deserves another go, rather than being written off completely from past performances.

I hope you''re right, nothing would please me more than if Taylor could even get back to being 90% of the T20 player he was circa 2007-2011