*Official* Pak In NZ Thread

[Tim]

If you look at Craig Cumming, he scored 31 with the bat but probably saved an extra 10 or 12 runs through brilliant fielding yesterday, so really he scored around 45 runs.

Marshall probably scored a 100 through good fielding at point also.

I think Cumming has shown sufficient strides in the last 2 games to suggest he's worth keeping for the South African ODI's.

 

[Mingster]

Come on, Oram is a much better allround player than Flintoff.

Big Jake has really comed in reaps and bounds over the past year, and is now a genuine third seamer.

Oram is now in the Top 10 ODI bowler rankings.

His fielding is excellent, and his stops at gully are unmatchable.

Flintoff's test bowling average says it all really.

And I don't wnat to see Adams play for NZ again unless he can show that he can bowl a good line.

ALl this trash that he is our specialist bowler is nothing, its probably better for him to bowl his usual rubbish short stuff than those half volleys and leg side wasit high fulltosses.

 

[Tim]

Andre Adams has gone downhill in a big way, I doubt he'll make the ODI team for the South African matches. Jeff Wilson might get his chance.

 

[Mingster]

Adams has never been good. His 5-22 was a pile of rubbish of short and wide balls at some Indians that weren't interested because of teh green seamers. Adams has to increase his accuracy. Butler must improve his radar as well if he is not to follow a similar fate.

In a full strength team, I see no place for Jeff Wilson.

 

[Tim]

Interesting to see Hamish Marshall go straight back into action today for N.D & he was out for 6.

He still can't buy many runs at FC level.

 

[Mingster]

Ah who cares!

As long as he performs at ODIs!

But seriously, I doubt he will furthen his ODI career based on his ODI performances along. He really needs to rack up some runs at State Championship.

 

[Tim]

Northern Districts are rubbish, how they won the State Shield last season I don't know but whether it be State Championship or Shield this season they've always been around 70/5.

 

[Mingster]

Well, they have always relied on the likes of Styris to pull them through.

Canterbury will win, they have the best team by miles on paper.

Papps, Stewart, Astle, Fulton, McMillan, Cairns, Harris, McCullum, Wiseman, Martin, Wisneski (Bond).

 

[marc71178]

But seriously, I doubt he will furthen his ODI career based on his ODI performances along. He really needs to rack up some runs at State Championship.

So if he continues to average around 40-50 in ODI's, but doesn't score runs in FC cricket - you reckon he'll be dropped?!

 

[anzac]

we dont have the batters to do taht though. this was shown by the recent tour to pakistan. papps fulton macintosh how and taylor are all big up and commers but they are all still pretty young. macca hasnt been going to bad. i dont see cumming getting dropped for the sa series. particully if we get another good start today.

I have to disagree with you on that one ...........the squad taken to Pakistan for the ODIs should not be seen as an indication of the alternative NZ batting - they took a new top 3 but the rest were 'established' ODI players - the majority of 'new' players seen were in the 'allrounder' / bowler depts......

I have to agree with Tim re Papps & McIntosh - both have had 3 good seasons under their belts where they have been close to dominating the domestic runs scoring, & both are now 24 which is older than the age at which some of the current team made their international debuts!!!

IMO there are now several other players who are also coming into contention for squad selections, such as Fulton and to a lesser extent Nichol & Ryder...........likewise I also believe that there are other players like H Marshall who are not so consistant at domestic level yet could thrive on the better pitches & competition at International levels.........

 

[anzac]

I think James Marshall could be a bolter for the England tour...arguably he's a better batsmen than Hamish because he's scored more centuries & also a double.
If he works the same way as Hamish does (believing that they're more comfortable at international level because they like the pressure) then he could be very good...and as far as fielding is concerned, he's pretty much equal ability to Hamish.

as much as I'd like to see that happen, I don't think he'd make selection as a specialist opener unless he got selected in the 'A' Team and had a blinder..........

firstly I'd like to see Hamish get a recall to the Test Squad, both as a reward for his ODI form and in recognition of his only Test in RSA.........

 

[anzac]

Well the selectors will be facing a dilemma when they come to naming the test squad for the 3 match series against South Africa.

Presumably Vincent will be out so do they keep Jones? or do they pick Papps or McIntosh?

Robbie Hart will be the other topic...he may well start the series against South Africa, but if he fails in the 1st test he may be dropped out for McCullum & that would probably end his international career so he will be gunning for runs & catching chances.

I think that while Richard Jones is a gutsy player...having Jones & Richardson opening could be almost too negative, Papps & McIntosh are also defensive but probably not as defensive as Jones is.

I'd like to see Papps given a go myself.

oh the situation is more complicated than that if / when Astle becomes available again, particularly if they persist in selecting both Cairns & Oram & if Cairns is not yet on song as a bowler........let alone to add Bond into the equation

they can not drop Jones if Vincent is out as this leaves them an opener short......personally I would not want to see Vincent Open again unless it is as 'cover', but I would like to see him get a run at No5 or 6.........

Richardson, ?, Fleming, Astle, Styris, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, Hart, Vettori, Tuffey

they may be able to get away with not having to make some changes for the RSA tour esp if Astle & Bond are not in contention, but the Engalnd teams will be very interesting.......

personally I think they will seriously consider the 'keeper as an opening bat a la Stewart to make room lower in the order for another bowling option.........

I know McCullum is now opening for Canterbury in State Championship games, but where did he bat in the order prior to his move??????? If they were considering using him as an opener at Test level then they should have used him as an Opener in ODIs and also probably introduced him into the Test team but batting lower in the order...........

I think Canterbury could well end up with both the Test & ODI 'keepers, but with 2 different players - Papps is the former Canterbury 'keeper, a specialist Opener & it appears he is still 'keeping in Shield Games while McCullum is on International duty........

 

[anzac]

I'm not sure how harsh Bracewell will be on how long a player can go without form for, but Styris & McMillan will fully know that Hamish Marshall is on their heels & they will have to produce a couple of substantial innings to keep their places in the side secure.

Styris annoys me sometimes because he gets a good score and then for the next 3 or 4 matches he gets nothing & then complains about why he's been treated so harshly in the media..he needs to be consistent or else he won't be batting at #4 for much longer, more like #6

I think you already have your answer in the continued selections of Cumming & Cairns..........at least Styris & Macca have produced something on a more regular basis than either of the others so currently they should be in no danger at all........

however as I have said earlier the only 1 of them who would be a starter in my team would be Styris, but I would drop him to No5 or 6 depending on what the role required was...........

 

[anzac]

As you'd expect any player that comes through in New Zealand can field very well, I don't think i've seen a hopeless NZ fielder in ages.

McIntosh & Papps I think both field in the slips & have safe hands.

And they're both specialist batsmen.

hasn't Papps been 'keeping for Canterbury in the State Shield games while McCullum has been in the ODIs??????

 

[anzac]

McMillan is far worse in this regard. After his 30-odd he said it should keep people off his back for 3 or 4 more games!

what a crap attitude from a senior player............

I find that indicative of the sort of complacent effort he has put in since returning from India - he has done nothing until now to warrant people keeping off his back & why should they with an attitude like that - using his logic 1 moderate innings in 4 is good enough!!!!! I suppose now that he scored that 81 in even time he will expect to start for the rest of the season???

I'm afraid that IMO this is the sort of prima donna attitude that was being referred to earlier in discussions when Bracewell's appointment was annonunced - along with Bracewell's selection policy re fitness, form, roles etc (which appears to have gone out the door somewhat).......

 

[anzac]

If you look at Craig Cumming, he scored 31 with the bat but probably saved an extra 10 or 12 runs through brilliant fielding yesterday, so really he scored around 45 runs.

Marshall probably scored a 100 through good fielding at point also.

I think Cumming has shown sufficient strides in the last 2 games to suggest he's worth keeping for the South African ODI's.

it's probably Cumming's contribution in the field that has kept him in the side to this point - IMO he's still not the solution regarding the Opening position, but I think they will give him the start in the ODIs v RSA for the first 3 matches at least........unless Astle becomes available and that raises a whole new series of considerations.............

 

[anzac]

Andre Adams has gone downhill in a big way, I doubt he'll make the ODI team for the South African matches. Jeff Wilson might get his chance.

agreed but Wilson is struggling to shake off his injuries re his bowling & is running out of time...........a sign that age is starting to catch up??????

 

[anzac]

Adams has never been good. His 5-22 was a pile of rubbish of short and wide balls at some Indians that weren't interested because of teh green seamers. Adams has to increase his accuracy. Butler must improve his radar as well if he is not to follow a similar fate.

In a full strength team, I see no place for Jeff Wilson.

yeah but what qualifies as a full strength team nowadays?????

if you mean Bond being available then there would also be no place for the likes of Adams or Mills as well as I can't see them leaving out Cairns, Oram or Tuffey.......

 

[anzac]

Ah who cares!

As long as he performs at ODIs!

But seriously, I doubt he will furthen his ODI career based on his ODI performances along. He really needs to rack up some runs at State Championship.

say what??????? come again????????

you doubt he will further his ODI career based upon his ODI performances alone & that he needs to score runs in the State Championship???????

are you serious???????

for starters the Championship is a 4 Day comp and has NO reflection on ODIs.......

2ndly McCullum, Mills, Cumming & Adams are all supposedly ODI specialists, let alone the likes of Harris, Hitchcock, Canning, M Walker & Mason.........and we won't even look at the likes of Bevan, Harvey, Symonds, Y Singh, M Kaif etc etc etc.......

so long as Marshall continues to do what he has been doing then the State Championship only becomes relevant to a possible call up to the Test squad...........

and you said that I talked rubbish!!!!!!!

:duh:

 

[Mingster]

Hahahahaha, sorry Anzac mate!

I was supposed to say I doubt he will furthern his 'TEST' career throught his ODI performances...

Now...that makes sense!

yeah but what qualifies as a full strength team nowadays?????

if you mean Bond being available then there would also be no place for the likes of Adams or Mills as well as I can't see them leaving out Cairns, Oram or Tuffey.......

I mean with Bond and Astle available.

oh the situation is more complicated than that if / when Astle becomes available again, particularly if they persist in selecting both Cairns & Oram & if Cairns is not yet on song as a bowler........let alone to add Bond into the equation

they can not drop Jones if Vincent is out as this leaves them an opener short......personally I would not want to see Vincent Open again unless it is as 'cover', but I would like to see him get a run at No5 or 6.........

Richardson, ?, Fleming, Astle, Styris, McMillan, Cairns, Oram, Hart, Vettori, Tuffey

they may be able to get away with not having to make some changes for the RSA tour esp if Astle & Bond are not in contention, but the Engalnd teams will be very interesting.......

personally I think they will seriously consider the 'keeper as an opening bat a la Stewart to make room lower in the order for another bowling option.........

I know McCullum is now opening for Canterbury in State Championship games, but where did he bat in the order prior to his move??????? If they were considering using him as an opener at Test level then they should have used him as an Opener in ODIs and also probably introduced him into the Test team but batting lower in the order...........

I think Canterbury could well end up with both the Test & ODI 'keepers, but with 2 different players - Papps is the former Canterbury 'keeper, a specialist Opener & it appears he is still 'keeping in Shield Games while McCullum is on International duty........

No. We can't have a part-time keeper for us. If Papps is going to make the ODI team, he has to make it on runs alone. I can't see McCullum getting dropped after this series, he averaged over 56 with the bat and only dropped one chance and took a few screamers as well.

Before McCullum moved to Canterbury he batted at 4 or 5 for Otago. I think McCullum opening in State Championship games for Canterbury is a good idea, it gives him more time to bat with the new ball.

All this Crowe talk, about us needing 7 bowlers is rubbish. We don't want to fallback to the World Cup where we played only a couple of specialist batsman.

We don't need McCullum to open in the ODI's, its OK for him to bat lower down, as it still allows us to have Styris as our 6th bowler.

I see no place for Cairns in the Test side, how will he make it? Not as an 6, not as a 3rd seamer because Oram has already taken over that mantle.