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***Official New Zealand in India Nov-Dec 2021 Thread***

Moss

Moss

International Vice-Captain
Guptill, king of the JAM bilateral. Good to see him hitting out though.

There was a pretty long discussion about his relative lack of success in big tournament crunch games, in the T20 final thread. Wonder if the lack of IPL opportunities when he was at his peak may also be an angle worth considering.
 
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F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Well done India.

Good that Mark Chapman scored some runs

4 decent 5th/6th bowlers in the top 6 (Mitchell, Ravindra, Chapman, and Phillips). I'd like to see Astle rested, get those 4 above to make up his overs and one of the test batters brought in just to get time batting. Will Young would be the best T20 player but Taylor hasn't batted in any form since the WTC final and needs some sort of match practice, while Latham and Nicholls are decent too.
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
Watched the last couple of overs. Why was Darryl bowling the last over? Why didn't Astle bowl out or a better question is why any of ravindra, Chapman and Phillips bowl an over earlier? Looks like it wasn't an easy pitch to score. The Indian middle and large order struggled to put bat to ball.

I'm guessing ravindra was a stop gap for neesham? Last minute fill in.
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
This is some pretty poor scheduling to have this tour. I know it’s all about money, but you got both sides resting players in all formats and under strength teams. They really couldn’t give them like 3 weeks rest after the World Cup could they. A lot of these matches are just about blooding new guys into the team
 
nzfan

nzfan

International Vice-Captain
To be fair to Astle, when did he last bowl in a game? Must have been earlier this year. Not easy to step up out of the blue.
 
L

loterry1994

International Debutant
New Zealand we’re lucky to even get this game close with 4 overs left. Seemed to be some panick around when it was realistically like one boundary the difference. New Zealand’s batting still seems a bit weak for me, they were like 2 down with 4 overs to go they needed at least 180 from there. NZ always mainly been about their bowlers, but I think they have too many batters who take too much time to set themselves up with lower strike rates then go big. I’m not sure who they have to pick from but I think they need more badgers in their batting lineup
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
Been a fair bit of chat about Guptill but here’s a golden example of our middle order not being able to capitalise on even the most ideal of set ups. I’m still not entirely sold on Phillips (who tbf has probably achieved enough in the format generally to keep his spot) and Seifert.

Also I saw a little bit of the game and it must be so weird for the players coming straight from a World Cup Final (and a World Cup played in front of often modest crowds) to play this ostensibly meaningless game, but it’s in front of a roaring packed house in India.

Not really an environment where you feel like just going through the motions. I guess it’d be good for motivation.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
thierry henry said:
Been a fair bit of chat about Guptill but here’s a golden example of our middle order not being able to capitalise on even the most ideal of set ups. I’m still not entirely sold on Phillips (who tbf has probably achieved enough in the format generally to keep his spot) and Seifert.
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Surprised Latham wasn't in the XI to firm up the middle order - no Williamson or Conway so no cake. We don't lack for that type of player with Young in reserve as well, but agree the more dynamic high-SR type batsmen are taking a while to come through. Keep Phillips, while Seifert and Chapman need more chances but also need to hurry up and perform to make the squad for the next T20 WC.

Speaking of, great to see Chapman score a 50, especially against spin where part-timers have made him look terrible a few times.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
straw man said:
Surprised Latham wasn't in the XI to firm up the middle order - no Williamson or Conway so no cake. We don't lack for that type of player with Young in reserve as well, but agree the more dynamic high-SR type batsmen are taking a while to come through. Keep Phillips, while Seifert and Chapman need more chances but also need to hurry up and perform to make the squad for the next T20 WC.

Speaking of, great to see Chapman score a 50, especially against spin where part-timers have made him look terrible a few times.
Click to expand...
Isn't Chapman meant to be the cake though? I always figured he was competing with the likes of Williamson and Conway, hence couldn't get a shot despite being one of our most accomplished T20 batsmen (if such a thing as a "proper" T20 batsman exists).

I always figured that he suffered from his "cakeness" because his only route into the side was as a middle-lower order biffer, and guys like Neesham and Phillips are better at that, while Phillips and Seifert also offer the potential ability to open the batting and possibly keep too. If you were just comparing Chapman to Seifert or Neesham as a pure T20 bat (again, if such a thing exists) then I would've thought he was clearly better.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
nzfan said:
Watched the last couple of overs. Why was Darryl bowling the last over? Why didn't Astle bowl out or a better question is why any of ravindra, Chapman and Phillips bowl an over earlier? Looks like it wasn't an easy pitch to score. The Indian middle and large order struggled to put bat to ball.

I'm guessing ravindra was a stop gap for neesham? Last minute fill in.
Click to expand...
Bowling a spinner in the last over is always a massive gamble that captain's tend to shy away from unless the pitch is ragging square. The real ****-up was Southee getting his sums wrong so that he couldn't call on one of Boult or Fergz to bowl in the last.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
I've always thought that Chapman was really good tbh (and I cbf doing a deep dive into his domestic stats which may prove me wrong) and has been unfortunate to have only had ridiculously sparse opportunities and to have done really poorly in them, just enough to create a misconception that he isn't gun.
 
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