***Official*** New Zealand Domestic Season 2017/18

[Athlai]

Would we compete more strongly in 2019? Don't unfortunately think so. I do know Ferguson would have to play, and we're never going to beat them over there with Santner as our sole spinner. Lyon's dominance and Ali's woes showed how far you get over there on dry tracks without a decent spinner. They're just more classier across the board than us (in playing talent, by no means as people)

WTF when does a spinner matter in AU?

 

[Bahnz]

WTF when does a spinner matter in AU?

Erm, Swann in 2011?

 

[Athlai]

Erm, Swann in 2011?

1 innings really. And you can chalk up conditions/mind explosions as much as genuine talent there. Anderson/Tremlett/Bresnan those were the real heroes.

 

[straw man]

Definitely think it's that time to start unironically claiming that NZ > Australia again, now where's KiwiViktor gone...

Hopefully we can organise him to kidnap Smith and keep him in his basement for the entire series.

 

[Bahnz]

Would we compete more strongly in 2019? Don't unfortunately think so. I do know Ferguson would have to play, and we're never going to beat them over there with Santner as our sole spinner. Lyon's dominance and Ali's woes showed how far you get over there on dry tracks without a decent spinner. They're just more classier across the board than us (in playing talent, by no means as people)

Depends on whether or not we get a game scheduled at Hobart. We'd be a good chance to win on a surface like the one we played on in 2011 or the won SA won on last year. I don't think Ferguson would add a lot. Unless NZ plans to bowl him for a max of 10 overs a day, he'll be relegated to a fast-medium by lunchtime. A fully fit and threatening Milne could've filled the fast man roll, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that that's never going to happen.

Would we fare better? I think the answer is yes. Our bowling attack I think is better placed now than it was in 2015, when Boult was struggling to crack 130 kmh, Mark Craig was serving up a couple 4-balls an over and Wagner was left out. The batting is a mixed bag. Raval is a better bet than Guptill at the top, but who knows how he's going to cope with the extra pace and bounce you get on Australian pitches. Latham continues to tread water. Williamson and Ross are still awesome. The big loss is McCullum at 5, but McCullum's test batting in 2015 wasn't flash.

Australia would beat us pretty comfortably I think - it would probably be fairly similar to the dominant wins they've recently experienced over England - especially given that if we get a boxing day test and the Sydney match, we'd presumably not got the chance to unleash lovely Trenty under lights.

 

[straw man]

Depends on whether or not we get a game scheduled at Hobart. We'd be a good chance to win on a surface like the one we played on in 2011 or the won SA won on last year. I don't think Ferguson would add a lot. Unless NZ plans to bowl him for a max of 10 overs a day, he'll be relegated to a fast-medium by lunchtime. A fully fit and threatening Milne could've filled the fast man roll, but it's becoming increasingly apparent that that's never going to happen.

Would we fare better? I think the answer is yes. Our bowling attack I think is better placed now than it was in 2015, when Boult was struggling to crack 130 kmh, Mark Craig was serving up a couple 4-balls an over and Wagner was left out. The batting is a mixed bag. Raval is a better bet than Guptill at the top, but who knows how he's going to cope with the extra pace and bounce you get on Australian pitches. Latham continues to tread water. Williamson and Ross are still awesome. The big loss is McCullum at 5, but McCullum's test batting in 2015 wasn't flash.

Australia would beat us pretty comfortably I think - it would probably be fairly similar to the dominant wins they've recently experienced over England - especially given that if we get a boxing day test and the Sydney match, we'd presumably not got the chance to unleash lovely Trenty under lights.

Pretty much. Also remembering that Kaneh was amazing last series and, as good as he is, that's not going to happen every series.

 

[Bahnz]

1 innings really. And you can chalk up conditions/mind explosions as much as genuine talent there. Anderson/Tremlett/Bresnan those were the real heroes.

Classic "if you take away when he went well, he wasn't very good" fallacy. Also even if Swann wasn't always a massive wicket taking threat, he did an excellent job of bowling a ton of overs, keeping it tight and allowing the others to rotate in and out. You need a spinner capable of doing that to have a chance in Australia. Craig's profligacy in 2015 was poisonous to our chances as it forced McCullum into overbowling Southee and Boult, ultimately reducing their efficacy.

 

[Athlai]

Classic "if you take away when he went well, he wasn't very good" fallacy. Also even if Swann wasn't always a massive wicket taking threat, he did an excellent job of bowling a ton of overs, keeping it tight and allowing the others to rotate in and out. You need a spinner capable of doing that to have a chance in Australia. Craig's profligacy in 2015 was poisonous to our chances as it forced McCullum into overbowling Southee and Boult, ultimately reducing their efficacy.

It's 1 innings out of a 5 Test series!

Beyond Herath I can't think of a single spinner who has toured Australia and been a real wicket taking chance. TBF I did forget Herath.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Yeah you just want someone capable of keeping it tidy. Which Santa has proven more than capable of doing. re Ferguson, he probably will flop but I'd rather that than playing some medium fast regular which will undoubtedly be useless.

 

[Flem274*]

2015 was buggered from the start when Boult and Southee were coming off injuries and bowling both sides of the wicket. As a fan you don't expect NZ sides to do well in Australia but you do expect them to bowl in the right areas. We also hurt ourselves by not playing Wagner.

The batting did more or less what you'd expect. Latham scored 40s, Kane was consistently class, Ross and Baz had their moments, Watling fought and the rest meh.

 

[Flem274*]

Ferguson every time I've watched in these odis has been over 140 for his spells and 150+ at peak. However he isn't doing **** in tests unless he moves the red ball or becomes a true cannon.

He might move the red ball tbf, i haven't seen him bowl in red ball cricket this season. if he's swinging it then he should be first reserve. certainly has plenty of wickets.

 

[Bahnz]

2015 was buggered from the start when Boult and Southee were coming off injuries and bowling both sides of the wicket. As a fan you don't expect NZ sides to do well in Australia but you do expect them to bowl in the right areas. We also hurt ourselves by not playing Wagner.

The batting did more or less what you'd expect. Latham scored 40s, Kane was consistently class, Ross and Baz had their moments, Watling fought and the rest meh.

Southee was fit going into the Australian leg of the series - he actually bowled bloody well at Brisbane with no support. It was the return leg in New Zealand were he went into the first test half fit.

 

[straw man]

Ferguson every time I've watched in these odis has been over 140 for his spells and 150+ at peak. However he isn't doing **** in tests unless he moves the red ball or becomes a true cannon.

He might move the red ball tbf, i haven't seen him bowl in red ball cricket this season. if he's swinging it then he should be first reserve. certainly has plenty of wickets.

Well unlike Milne there are at least a pile of FC wickets to show that it's not just pace. I think his domestic success is built on speed, bounce, slingy-action uncertainty, fear and a bit of seam movement.

Doubt he'll ever really swing the ball, but would be amazing if he could develop that tailing shape that Mitchell Johnson got from going a bit round-arm sometimes.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

He swings it in with the new ball. If he was to play it would have to be in southees place, balance doesn't work otherwise.

 

[Bahnz]

Yeah you just want someone capable of keeping it tidy. Which Santa has proven more than capable of doing. re Ferguson, he probably will flop but I'd rather that than playing some medium fast regular which will undoubtedly be useless.

In New Zealand, against mediocre opposition. I do think he's a better bet than Craig, but we'll wait to see how he fares when Warner comes running at him before we declare him capable of filling the holding role more generally.

 

[Flem274*]

Southee was fit going into the Australian leg of the series - he actually bowled bloody well at Brisbane with no support. It was the return leg in New Zealand were he went into the first test half fit.

didn't he miss perth through injury as well?

 

[Bahnz]

didn't he miss perth through injury as well?

Nope. He had a niggle at Brisbane which meant he didn't do much bowling after lunch on day 2 (by which point it was a lost cause anyway). But it turned out to be nothing and he was fully fit for game 2.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

In New Zealand, against mediocre opposition. I do think he's a better bet than Craig, but we'll wait to see how he fares when Warner comes running at him before we declare him capable of filling the holding role more generally.

Except he's also done it against India. I'm not saying he's sure to succeed, but all things considered he's definitely the best option we've got.

 

[Flem274*]

oh right we fell into the four fast bowlers trap in perth didnt we. i had it in my head that henry came in for an injured southee, but no everyone but wagner played.

 

[Bahnz]

Except he's also done it against India. I'm not saying he's sure to succeed, but all things considered he's definitely the best option we've got.

I wouldn't exactly say that 10 wickets at 52 and an econ of 3.4 is a feather in his cap (especially given that a roll of a spin bowler in India is very different to Australia). But yes, I do concede that he's probably the best we've got. I'm certainly not advocating picking Sodhi ahead of him.