*Official* NatWest Series: ENG v SA v ZIM

[Langeveldt]

Pretty poor captaincy, I agree...

Zim deserved to win today, they came out looking to repair a reputation damagaed by the test series, and they went a little way to doing that...

This is the most uninspiring England side I think I have seen... In fact the poorest side in international cricket, bar Zimbabwe and Bangladesh of course...

Although England beat pakistan, i cant help but feel with Waqar, Elahi, Inzamam et al. the result could have been far different...

 

[Rik]

Re: Re: Re: Natwest Series thread

But is it fair on these guys to chop them because someone decides he wants to play again?

No matter how good a player he is, if he's that unreliable, I feel that it's a right move.

If it means the difference between winning and loosing then there is no arguement. If the player is good enough he should play. Not only is our team not strong, but our backup of Harmison and Key and Kabir Ali is appaulingly weak and means that if any of our players do not perform they have an even less impressive player to replace them. Troughton needed a score so England rest him then will bring him back against a much stronger SA team, oh well done, put the pressure straight back on him why don't you?

 

[Tim]

So Marc....are you still predicting a England/South Africa final..all it takes is for Zimbabwe to upset England again & England really are in deep trouble.

 

[Tim]

I think it was a case of England beating Pakistan and thinking they were in good form and then thinking that because Zimbabwe lost to Ireland and had narrow victories over county sides that they would be easy pushovers.
I even saw it at the BBC, certain commentators were saying that this match was a done deal...and in someways it should have been for England.

But I think after they took 3 quick wickets they probably thought..oh well we've got this in the bag & it slowly got out of control. Now whether thats the captains fault or the players collectively i don't know because I didn't see what Vaughan was doing.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think it's still pretty safely an England v South Africa final.

I can't believe you guys let Ervine be so econmical though.
What's that you say? He bowled well? I though that was myth...

 

[Tim]

Ervine seems to be a player of some ability especially with the bat.
I've noticed a number of times now that he's capable of scoring a very quick 20 or 30 runs down in the lower order.
If he can continue that more consistently then he could find himself further up the order for Zimbabwe.

 

[Tim]

I don't know whether Vaughan is going to be a very good captain for England..he looks to be very quiet in the field although at times against Pakistan he did made some good stops in the field which would have lifted his team.

It was almost like Vaughan had made up his mind that no matter what the score was at the end of 15 overs, he was still going to push everyone back & I think that comes down to lack of captaincy experience.

 

[marc71178]

At least he's got 4 years to gain experience before the next World Cup.

OK, we had a bad day at the office, but it's the first time under Vaughan that we have performed badly, and Flintoff continues to impress until he gets to the crucial overs, when he has a rush of blood to the head.

 

[Bazza]

I'm not sure Flintoff didn't push on at the right time. I know it always looks like he throws his wicket away but if we were going to get much over 200 we had to have a go then.

The reason we didn't is because we didn't have an experienced classy player (Thorpe anyone?) who could nudge it around, rotate the strike, find the gaps for singles. Instead we had to suffer Key and McGrath struggling to make 2 an over of Price.

If it wasn't for Trescothick giving us a bit of a flier against Blignaut, we would have made 150 against the second weakest attack in international cricket.

I agree Rik this was an ideal chance to give Troughton a score and find him some form. He has only played three games in a week - does he really need a rest?

I think overall though it was just poor captaincy. Nasser was criticised for not going for the throat, but Michael Vaughan gave Zimbabwe a hand in getting to their feet, bringing on Rikki Clarke when they were 40-4 or something.

One thing which continually amuses me is the Ashley Giles thing. Every time he comes on to bowl Ian Botham gets really agitated that he bowls over the wicket not around. Yesterday I definitely agreed with him - Ray Price caused problems and bowled a great ball that got Key out - but it's just funny to hear how much it annoys Botham.

Personally I think Robert Croft deserves another chance. His track record is better than Giles' and in the last couple of seasons he's shown he can bat in one day cricket with a couple of tons to his name. This would allow us to play Anderson, Gough, Johnson and Flintoff without worrying too much about lacking depth. Even without Stewart we would have a batsman at 6, Read 7, Croft 8, then Johnson and Gough can fling the bat a bit.

 

[Neil Pickup]

In fact the poorest side in international cricket, bar Zimbabwe and Bangladesh of course...

Tiny little bit over-the-top, wasn't that?

I think the major problem is that we are missing a bowler. We only have four who you can rely on to get through their overs effectively 90% of the time, then McGrath and Clarke.

I would drop one of those two and play three quicks - namely Anderson, Johnson and Gough - then Giles at 8, and Read at 7.

The batting of Vaughan, Trescothick, Solanki, Troughton, Flintoff, Collingwood when fit, McGrath to fill the top six seems solid enough though at present it still seems to be lacking that extra bit of class.

I would have been ashamed of Rikki Clarke's shot.

 

[Eyes_Only]

Re: Natwest Series thread

One month to boil down to one game - England v South Africa at Lords in the final.

One month until Simon makes his Lords debut for the Final

 

[Rik]

Re: Re: Natwest Series thread

One month until Simon makes his Lords debut for the Final

I saw him on TV for the 1st time last night, he had a good game. And he didn't tell anyone to shut up

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I would have been ashamed of Rikki Clarke's shot.

Wow. That's quite a feat. If Neil Pickup, who averages 2 with the bat, is ashamed of his shot.......

 

[Langeveldt]

Tiny little bit over-the-top, wasn't that?

I still dont think so, England have lost their best players, and the replacements look horribly substandard, im not saying they will be the same in a few years time, but they are found wanting at the moment..

West Indies? New Zealand? I still think they look stronger than that England XI yesterday..

 

[V Reddy]

Tiny little bit over-the-top, wasn't that?

I think the major problem is that we are missing a bowler. We only have four who you can rely on to get through their overs effectively 90% of the time, then McGrath and Clarke.

I would drop one of those two and play three quicks - namely Anderson, Johnson and Gough - then Giles at 8, and Read at 7.

The batting of Vaughan, Trescothick, Solanki, Troughton, Flintoff, Collingwood when fit, McGrath to fill the top six seems solid enough though at present it still seems to be lacking that extra bit of class.

I would have been ashamed of Rikki Clarke's shot.

I think every team has only 4 main bowlers but the problem with England i think is they pick players who are decent in both batting and bowling to bowl the 10 overs and they end not playing well in both . Instead they should pick good batsman and ask them to bowl some overs. I feel England should drop either Clark or McGrath and pick a good batsman in their place and ask Vaughan to bowl the overs which they bowled.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

That's sounds like the current West Indian approach. I have my doubts about it though.

 

[Rik]

What's puzzling is we do have some good batsmen who CAN bowl, Solanki was a useful offie but has now given it up, and Tresco was a very very handy medium-pacer but oddly he's not bothered for the last few years. If Sehwag, Ganguly, Tendulkar, Mongia, Yuvraj all bowl then why can't our batsmen? In ODIs it's allways good to have other options...

 

[marc71178]

I agree with Rik.

Our 2 best leg spinners of recent times (last 10-15 years) have been Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain. Not sure why Nasser finished with it?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

When you put it like that, it makes one pity England.....

 

[Anil]

Our 2 best leg spinners of recent times (last 10-15 years) have been Mike Atherton and Nasser Hussain. Not sure why Nasser finished with it?

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