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***Official*** India in Pakistan

nehrafan

Banned
Its a sheer trajedy, the team that looked better on the most part of the tour (in 2 out of 3 matches India did outperform Pak) ened up losing the match:@

I think our bowlers were completely worn out in the last test matches, having made to bowl for longer period on dead pitches had its effect on our bowlers.The cunning Inzamam didn't declare in the second test as he wanted Pak bowlers to remain fresh for the last match while he wanted Indian bowlers to be totally lethargic for the final match.
 

irfan

State Captain
Well all this talk of Dravid opening and taking one for the team, I don't see why Laxman shouldnt open. He was originally an opener when he started, granted he didnt have too much success but I think it's time for him to reinvigorate himself up there facing the new ball. Temperamental-wise he should be the ideal foil to Shewag's blazing strokeplay.

the indian batting lineup shud be sehwag,laxman,dravid,sachin,yuvraj,ganguly

Congrats to Pakistan who have thrashed two quality opponents in succession, especially their come-from-nowhere wins here and in Multan against Eng.

My Ideal Pak XI -Test in English conditions
1. S Butt
2. Y Hameed
3. Y Khan
4. M Yousuf
5. I Ul-Haq
6. S Afridi
7. K Akmal
8. R Naved - swing
9. S Akhtar - pace
10 M Asif - seam
11 D Kaneria
 

dontcloseyoureyes

BARNES OUT
irfan said:
My Ideal Pak XI -Test in English conditions
1. S Butt
2. Y Hameed
3. Y Khan
4. M Yousuf
5. I Ul-Haq
6. S Afridi
7. K Akmal
8. R Naved - swing
9. S Akhtar - pace
10 M Asif - seam
11 D Kaneria
That's the XI I'd have too.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Sanz said:
You will be surprised. Actually most people in India are so blinded by Ganguly hatred that they think of Chappell as some kind of Saviour of Indian Cricket, they dont even believe that Chappell actually showed his finger on the contrary it was some sort of trick photography. IMO Chappel was a brilliant player but is a very average coach and time will prove that.
Let's take a look at what Chappell has done in his stint for India. He's made them a better fielding unit, provided flexibility to the batting and turned Dhoni and Pathan into viable options with the bat. As far as I know, there's no reason to accept or deny the 'finger' allegations, why not just ignore them. First of all, why would you focus on a gesture that many of us make on a regular basis rather than on Chappell's cricketing moves. Sure, diplomacy and public tact is great to have, but let's focus on having a winning team first, ok? Finally, those fans not only deserved Chappell's finger, but also mine.
 

Fusion

Global Moderator
adharcric said:
Let's take a look at what Chappell has done in his stint for India. He's made them a better fielding unit, provided flexibility to the batting and turned Dhoni and Pathan into viable options with the bat. As far as I know, there's no reason to accept or deny the 'finger' allegations, why not just ignore them. First of all, why would you focus on a gesture that many of us make on a regular basis rather than on Chappell's cricketing moves. Sure, diplomacy and public tact is great to have, but let's focus on having a winning team first, ok? Finally, those fans not only deserved Chappell's finger, but also mine.
First of all, let me admit that I'm no expert on Indian cricket and hence the Chappell controversry. But I have followed it from afar. Diplomacy and public tact are not required to be a good coach, granted. However, if one is consistently bad (even terrible) at it, then it can affect the team courtesy of FULL BLOWN CONTROVERSIES. IMO, Chappell can defuse some of the fires before they start. He holds the most high profile coaching job in the world, I can guarantee you there will be some other controversies in the future he will have to deal with (whether it's his fault or not). His response to these yet unforseen controversies could either distract the team (even divide them) OR he can learn to be more diplomatic/tactful and defuse the controversy. Stuborness can be good in some cases, but too much of it can ruin a fellow.
 
MEN IN BLUE --- The PAIN for PAKISTAN

Found this blogs and I love it would like to post it here.

The world's gratest bowler Wasim Akram and Imran Khan says the trouble for Pakistan is here.
They FEAR the END of PAKISTAN agaist INDIA in ODI.
They FEAR THEIR RECORDS would be BROKEN
By who?...........

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - Irfan Pathan.

Adam Gilcrist is thinking about his records would be broken.
He FEARS to loose the position in world XI,
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MS. Dhoni



Jhonty Rodhse FEARS that his records would be broken
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MD. Kaif

Every team FEAR loosing series
Every team FEAR loosing ranking
against only one one NATION,
Which NATION?........

no other than INDIA
They FEAR the MEN IN BLUE.

so be ready to LOOSE series PAKISTAN.
Just love it. I have faith in myself India will win the ODI series and I'm not being too overconfident But I still think Pakistan has the chance of winning the ODI too. Hope Sreesanth can be prove useful against Pakistan. Comeonm Men in Blue and I have full faith that India will win this.
__________________
 

adharcric

International Coach
Sanz said:
You will be surprised. Actually most people in India are so blinded by Ganguly hatred that they think of Chappell as some kind of Saviour of Indian Cricket, they dont even believe that Chappell actually showed his finger on the contrary it was some sort of trick photography. IMO Chappel was a brilliant player but is a very average coach and time will prove that.
Also, I don't know if I speak for other fans, but I personally do not hate Ganguly ... rather I am a huge Ganguly supporter. At the same time, I am a HUGE India supporter, and the team always comes before the individual. Amidst all this, there's no reason to take the path of sensationalism and present either Chappell or Ganguly as the antagonist, which is what too many people have been doing. Let's focus on building a winning team.
 

adharcric

International Coach
sheerindianspeed said:
Found this blogs and I love it would like to post it here.

The world's gratest bowler Wasim Akram and Imran Khan says the trouble for Pakistan is here.
They FEAR the END of PAKISTAN agaist INDIA in ODI.
They FEAR THEIR RECORDS would be BROKEN
By who?...........

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - Irfan Pathan.

Adam Gilcrist is thinking about his records would be broken.
He FEARS to loose the position in world XI,
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MS. Dhoni



Jhonty Rodhse FEARS that his records would be broken
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MD. Kaif

Every team FEAR loosing series
Every team FEAR loosing ranking
against only one one NATION,
Which NATION?........

no other than INDIA
They FEAR the MEN IN BLUE.

so be ready to LOOSE series PAKISTAN.
Just love it. I have faith in myself India will win the ODI series and I'm not being too overconfident But I still think Pakistan has the chance of winning the ODI too. Hope Sreesanth can be prove useful against Pakistan. Comeonm Men in Blue and I have full faith that India will win this.
__________________
Umm, yeah sure. I also back India to put up a much better fight than expected as this is a changed ODI team with some real energy in it now and improved running between the wickets and fielding. I fear Pathan, Agarkar and RP Singh will be used in the first ODI, but hopefully one of them gets the (bad) figures that he deserves and is replaced by Sreesanth (you all know who I'm talking about). Unless of course Agarkar comes in bowling in the high 130s and rocks the Pakistani top-order, then he can stay.
 

adharcric

International Coach
Fusion said:
First of all, let me admit that I'm no expert on Indian cricket and hence the Chappell controversry. But I have followed it from afar. Diplomacy and public tact are not required to be a good coach, granted. However, if one is consistently bad (even terrible) at it, then it can affect the team courtesy of FULL BLOWN CONTROVERSIES. IMO, Chappell can defuse some of the fires before they start. He holds the most high profile coaching job in the world, I can guarantee you there will be some other controversies in the future he will have to deal with (whether it's his fault or not). His response to these yet unforseen controversies could either distract the team (even divide them) OR he can learn to be more diplomatic/tactful and defuse the controversy. Stuborness can be good in some cases, but too much of it can ruin a fellow.
oh yes, i agree fully with you on that part. it's something he needs to work on because controversy does play a role in the functionality and cohesiveness of a team, especially one like Team India. i was just responding to the extra emphasis that has been placed on these media-highlighted occurences rather than what chappell brings as a cricketing mind. after all, he's not the first guy who's been rubbished by the indian media.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
My thoughts on the series:


I don't think the series was fair for either team. Pakistan COULD have won this series 3-0, for all we know, given how they played and how India played on this Karachi track, but were not given the chance due to those stupid wickets at Lahore and Faisalabad. India COULD have learnt their lessons and played better to come back into the series, had the series had better wickets. I think we (Ind and Pak) fans have been robbed of a very exciting series because of those two wickets. But that said, Pakistan have clearly shown that ON the best wicket of the series, they WERE the better team. I still doubt whether they can be called a better test side than India, but atleast now they have shown that they are well on the way to being a very very good test side.



As Geoffrey Boycott pointed out in the post match show, the Pak batters showed that they were ready to adapt to the wicket. After their dismal performance in the first innings, all their top 6 batters put their heads down and played well in the second dig. At the same time, I still think their batters are technically weak even now (except Inzy) and it will be interesting to see how they go against England. But I have no doubt that their bowlers will do well, esp. if they actually include one more seamer in Rana Naveed, because I think he will do very well in the English conditions.



Coming to India, hopefully this defeat will serve as a wake up call to everyone in the side. Almost all the batters got found out on a decent track. I don't think this means that these guys are not technically equippped to play in such conditions. Dravid, SEhwag, Laxman, Tendulkar have all made runs in tougher pitches. It just shows that a few things may have crept into their games after playing on 3 featherbeds here in Pak. But I do think the Indian batters get bowled WAY too often for comfort, esp. Laxman. And hopefully, this stupid idea of tinkering with the opening position will be done away now. I still don't think it is worth it for India to risk its two best batsmen at the top of the order.


And Kumble seriously needs to get his act right. I have seen him bowl MUCH better on flatter tracks than Lahore and Faisalabad. Perhaps, the Indian attack got short charged as they never had the opportunity to bowl with a big score behind them, esp. the spinners. I do think it might have made a SLIGHT difference. But India won the toss in the match that mattered and had Pak at 39/6 and yet squandered the advantage. There is something seriously wrong with our medium pace attack. Maybe AA could have made the difference as a right arm bowler who can bend the ball back in at decent speed to the left handed openers. Ganguly showed that both openers were prime LBW candidates to right arm over the wicket outswing bowlers.



All in all, this defeat MAY not be such a bad thing for India provided they learn their lessons and NOT repeat these mistakes. Pakistan are a very good and talented side and there is no shame in losing to them (although it is shameful to lose so badly. :( )


On the positive side, I guess it means that most of the Indian trolls will now be gone. So, there is a pro to every con, I guess. :) :D
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Sanz said:
You will be surprised. Actually most people in India are so blinded by Ganguly hatred that they think of Chappell as some kind of Saviour of Indian Cricket, they dont even believe that Chappell actually showed his finger on the contrary it was some sort of trick photography. IMO Chappel was a brilliant player but is a very average coach and time will prove that.
Sanz, why do you find it so difficult to understand that he MAY have been attending to an injured finger. The finger was shown horizontally placed as well, which is a funny way to do it if you do intend to give someone the middle finger. Secondly, I don't think Chappell is a saviour of Indian cricket or anything. I think he is a pro who has good knowledge on cricket and I think he will make India a better side in the long term. He HAS made mistakes and he will make mistakes. But I still think he is the right man for the job.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
adharcric said:
Let's take a look at what Chappell has done in his stint for India. He's made them a better fielding unit, provided flexibility to the batting and turned Dhoni and Pathan into viable options with the bat. As far as I know, there's no reason to accept or deny the 'finger' allegations, why not just ignore them. First of all, why would you focus on a gesture that many of us make on a regular basis rather than on Chappell's cricketing moves. Sure, diplomacy and public tact is great to have, but let's focus on having a winning team first, ok? Finally, those fans not only deserved Chappell's finger, but also mine.
Better fielding unit ? Are you saying that He has turned Anil, Sourav, Nehra, Bhajji into Johnty Rhodes ? Or are you claiming that Yuvraj, Kaif weren't as good under Wright ? If anything Fitness level of players has been worse (In case you dont trust me, Take a Look at Sehwag). As for Pathan's batting, If you are going to give Chappelll credit for Pathan's batting then he should be responsible for decline in his bowling as well. I dont think Pathan's batting has improved due to Greg, he had proved that he could bat against Australia in India. Dhoni, I agree, has improved be leaps and bounds.

I couldn't care less about Chappell's cricketing moves, India just lost the series which it won last time, thanks to his moves. India didn't win the series against SA, despite his moves. So please dont defend his Cricketing moves infront of me. IMO They are Crap and sooner we get rid of him better it is for Indian Cricket. Earlier his moves, statements were limited to Indian Cricket and Cricketer, Now he is trying those same moves with PCB and Pakistani player.

As for Fans deserving finger, well what can I say, just proves my point right. May be you deserved, but I didn't neither did millions of kolkatans.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
adharcric said:
Also, I don't know if I speak for other fans, but I personally do not hate Ganguly ... rather I am a huge Ganguly supporter. At the same time, I am a HUGE India supporter, and the team always comes before the individual. Amidst all this, there's no reason to take the path of sensationalism and present either Chappell or Ganguly as the antagonist, which is what too many people have been doing. Let's focus on building a winning team.
Talk about hypocrisy, first you say that fans not only deserve Greg's finger but yours too and then you come here pretending to be a messiah of peace and preaching that we shouldn't take the path of sensationalism and blah blah blah.

About Ganguly - I couldn't care less if Ganguly stays in the team or stays out. Infact if you ask me, I want him out of the team and want a proper opener in his place. I think his time is up as a cricketer but at the same time I dont want to dictate his life and support those who want him to retire. It is his wish, whether he wants to retire or continue playing. But my opinion is same about SRT also, IMO his time is up as well.

About Chappel - I dont think Chappell can build a winning team, at least not without stepping on selectors/cricketers/administrators toes, not without creating needless controversies. He was a great player and that's about it. I dont think he can achieve 50% of what Wright did. Mark my words - With Chappell as coach India wont even reach the Semifinals of WC 2007.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
honestbharani said:
Sanz, why do you find it so difficult to understand that he MAY have been attending to an injured finger. The finger was shown horizontally placed as well, which is a funny way to do it if you do intend to give someone the middle finger. Secondly, I don't think Chappell is a saviour of Indian cricket or anything. I think he is a pro who has good knowledge on cricket and I think he will make India a better side in the long term. He HAS made mistakes and he will make mistakes. But I still think he is the right man for the job.
HB, you are a very nice human being and I really appreciate if you still are willing to accept Chappel's story on the issue. But I am sorry to say, I am not that nice.
 

atlanta

Cricket Spectator
sheerindianspeed said:
Found this blogs and I love it would like to post it here.

The world's gratest bowler Wasim Akram and Imran Khan says the trouble for Pakistan is here.
They FEAR the END of PAKISTAN agaist INDIA in ODI.
They FEAR THEIR RECORDS would be BROKEN
By who?...........

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - Irfan Pathan.

Adam Gilcrist is thinking about his records would be broken.
He FEARS to loose the position in world XI,
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MS. Dhoni



Jhonty Rodhse FEARS that his records would be broken
By who?............

nobody else than the MAN IN BLUE - MD. Kaif

Every team FEAR loosing series
Every team FEAR loosing ranking
against only one one NATION,
Which NATION?........

no other than INDIA
They FEAR the MEN IN BLUE.

so be ready to LOOSE series PAKISTAN.
Just love it. I have faith in myself India will win the ODI series and I'm not being too overconfident But I still think Pakistan has the chance of winning the ODI too. Hope Sreesanth can be prove useful against Pakistan. Comeonm Men in Blue and I have full faith that India will win this.
__________________
carry on lad. your enthusiasm is uhh...umm.... different. Certainly not drama queen like.:)
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Ahh...funny how Dravid cops no blame for not playing his openers, while Chappell naturally is the fall guy ;) And of course, he has to be blamed for the loss, it would be stupid to consider that Pakistan actually have improved by leaps and bounds since the last tour in Pak :laugh: It would also be stupid to consider that Pathan lost his pace right from the 2004 Ind-Pak series in India, played under John Wright. If India do not reach the Semis of the WC, it will naturally be Chappells fault, because obviously Wright was single handedly responsible for Sachins magnificent form in the 2003 WC, he was single handedly responsible for getting Zaheer and Nehra to bowl well on the whole in the WC, never mind the decline under him through 2004 :laugh:
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Deja - How many times adharcric gave credit to Dravid for India's improved fielding or Pathan/Dhoni's Success ?? If you are going to give Chappell Credit for team's improvement then it is fair that you take the blames for team's failures. How many times people gave Dravid Credit for India's win over SL, It was all because of Chappell and now that we have lost it is because of Dravid, isn't it ?

Yes, Pakistan have improved, So have India, Our batting was supposedly better than last time(Dhoni, Pathan), so was bowling with both Zaheer and Bhajji into the team. If we trust Adhar, our fielding has improved as well.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Wright at least took India to Finals, Chappell wont. I am 200 % sure about it. Wright's team lost to Australia @ home because Its main players were out for the major part of the series, Ganguly out of Nagpur and Mumbai, SRT out of 2 or 3 tests as well. Wright does share the blame for the loss though. There is no denying that he failed in WC finals and against Aus @ home.
 

Deja moo

International Captain
Sanz said:
Deja - How many times adharcric gave credit to Dravid for India's improved fielding or Pathan/Dhoni's Success ?? If you are going to give Chappell Credit for team's improvement then it is fair that you take the blames for team's failures. How many times people gave Dravid Credit for India's win over SL, It was all because of Chappell and now that we have lost it is because of Dravid, isn't it ?

Yes, Pakistan have improved, So have India, Our batting was supposedly better than last time(Dhoni, Pathan), so was bowling with both Zaheer and Bhajji into the team. If we trust Adhar, our fielding has improved as well.
I'm not disputing the fielding, IMO its stayed the same, neither up nor down. In the ODI arena, yes it has improved with the induction of Raina, but that would have been the case even if Ponting were coaching India. However Pathan and Harbhajan have gone on record saying that they have benefitted from Frazer's inputs. And it is largely the medias fault for creating the impression that Chappel alone was reponsible for the showing against SL. In fact towards the end of that series, they did mention how Dravid seemed at pains to assert during press conferences, that he had a lot to do with it, and he wasnt a puppet captain following Chappells orders.
 

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