*Official* Australia in decline thread

[itduzz]

Another nail in Aussie coffin

http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/haddin-falls-to-broken-finger/2008/06/05/1212259004801.html

 

[Richard]

FFS, someone ban this idiot perminantly.

 

[bond21]

whatever you say..

Unless someone like Lee or Clark goes down I doubt we'll have trouble beating WI

 

[pasag]

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=38008

or

http://forum.cricketweb.net/showthread.php?t=38536

 

[aussie]

Periods of dominance of a sport such as Australia of the last decade are exceptionally rare. I don't imagine we'll see one again any time soon.

It's remarkable enough that we had two as close together as West Indies (1976-1986) and Australia (1995/96-2006/07).

West Indies should end of in 95 vs AUS & AUS should continue to ranked the best side in the world until the are defeated in a test series. Regardless of the fact the team is lacks the stars the made them the best in the world, same as WI even though their stars where in decline.

 

[Richard]

Nah, no way. West Indies' domination finished in 1986, as I said it did. Australia's didn't really even start until the home season of 1999/2000, thinking about it - until then they still lost almost every series in the subcontinent.

Being the best side in The World is different to being a dominant force.

 

[aussie]

Nah, no way. West Indies' domination finished in 1986, as I said it did. Australia's didn't really even start until the home season of 1999/2000, thinking about it - until then they still lost almost every series in the subcontinent.

Being the best side in The World is different to being a dominant force.

I don't think you can split it into two categories it should should go hand in hand.

West Indies yea were totally dominant between 76-86 blowing everyone away. Yes some of their greats declined a bit thus being challenged by AUS, PAK, NZ & IND over the next decade but it was a side of a great team that those magnificent players stuck in out & overcame those challenges.

AUS now are obvious a shadow of their dominant self of 95-06/07 (although they had an IND jinx they had to overcome) especially in the bowling ranks but still remain the best side in the world & should remain that way until they get a home series defeat for me at least since IND beating AUS @ home wouldn't make them WC like it was when AUS won in WI 95. It will just carry AUS back to their IND jinx of the past.

 

[Richard]

I don't think you can split it into two categories it should should go hand in hand.

While obviously if you are one you are automatically the other, there is no way on Earth that being the best team in The World makes you a dominant force.

Only exceptionally rarely have teams stood head and shoulders above the rest as WI did between 1976 and 1986, or Australia between 1999/2000 and 2006/07.

I'm not saying I think Australia are promptly to be dispatched from the "obviously the best team around". I'm answering the question posed by Leslie1.

 

[ret]

though I m not following the series, the credit goes to Sarwan and C'paul for drawing the test from what i can see from the scorecard .... 2 Fifty plus scores in the 4th innings are in the name of the above mentioned gentlemen, others gave not gone past 20

on Ponting's captaincy, I was never really impressed esp after seeing someone like Taylor captain Australia .... even Steve Waugh, i felt, benefitted a lot from the team that Australia had

on decline, I m not someone who expects a team to dominate for decades after decades .... Most of us knew after McGrath and Warne, Australia would not be the same team. even in 2004, when Ind drew in Australia, it looked beatable in the absense of McGrath and Warne

Out of the box solution ----> haha, may be get Warne back in and give him the captaincy. that will not only get in a good bowler back but also a strong captain and lets see if he can repeat the magic he created in the IPL with the Royals

 

[Sanz]

It's not his job to find a world calss bowler though. The Australian system doesn't guarantee success at international level. What it does though is pretty much ensure they get the best out of what's on offer.

Dont understand the context of the above. I dont disagree with what you said.

I never said that it was Ponting's responsibility to find the new Mcgraths or Warne. What I was trying to say is, Ponting was considered a good/great captain by some aussie member mainly because of his winning record. IMO his winning record doesn't reflect his potential as a captain. IMO, I dont see anything in him as a captain that is not ordinary.

It is a lot easier to hand the ball to Mcgrath/Warne when you need a wicket, even more so when those guys have been around for 10+ years and know their job very well.

I agree that Australian system does not guarantee success, but their leadership under Border & Taylor on the cricket field has been outstanding. Both SRW and Ponting benefit from that immensely and hardly the captains they are often said to be.

All ofcourse - IMHO.

 

[Richard]

I'm wondering which Aussies (other than the sideshowtims et al) claim Ponting to be such a magnificent captain.

 

[Sanz]

LOL @ Ponting getting called a bad captain for looking the better side over five days with two bowlers.

No. He is called a poor captain for not giving enough credit to the Opposition for saving the game, criticizing the pitch (saying it was not good for test cricket) and for criticizing his bowlers publicly and expecting a Mcgrath/Warne like performance from his bowlers.

"I made all those bowling changes today just trying to get the partnership broken and then we could have brought the quicks back and exposed their new batsmen to the reverse swing but we just couldn't get that breakthrough we needed,"

The above looks like exonerating himself from the responsibility.

 

[Lambu]

No. He is called a poor captain for not giving enough credit to the Opposition for saving the game, criticizing the pitch (saying it was not good for test cricket) and for criticizing his bowlers publicly and expecting a Mcgrath/Warne like performance from his bowlers.

"I made all those bowling changes today just trying to get the partnership broken and then we could have brought the quicks back and exposed their new batsmen to the reverse swing but we just couldn't get that breakthrough we needed,"

The above looks like exonerating himself from the responsibility.

Agree 100% with you there..irrespective of the popular opinion,Ponting in my eyes shall always be nothing more than an average captain.

 

[Nate]

No. He is called a poor captain for not giving enough credit to the Opposition for saving the game, criticizing the pitch (saying it was not good for test cricket) and for criticizing his bowlers publicly and expecting a Mcgrath/Warne like performance from his bowlers.

"I made all those bowling changes today just trying to get the partnership broken and then we could have brought the quicks back and exposed their new batsmen to the reverse swing but we just couldn't get that breakthrough we needed,"

The above looks like exonerating himself from the responsibility.

That definately seems like much more valid reasoning than some of the views expressed so far.

 

[Jono]

No. He is called a poor captain for not giving enough credit to the Opposition for saving the game, criticizing the pitch (saying it was not good for test cricket) and for criticizing his bowlers publicly and expecting a Mcgrath/Warne like performance from his bowlers.

"I made all those bowling changes today just trying to get the partnership broken and then we could have brought the quicks back and exposed their new batsmen to the reverse swing but we just couldn't get that breakthrough we needed,"

The above looks like exonerating himself from the responsibility.

I do think Ponting is a much improved captain than back in 2005, however I do think he makes far too many stupid statements after matches.

His whinge in India in 2004 was a joke, and his "don't blame me if we lose the Ashes" in 2005 was pathetic. Those words should never be uttered from a captain, particularly the captain of one of the greatest cricket teams of all time.

 

[aussie]

Agree 100% with you there..irrespective of the popular opinion,Ponting in my eyes shall always be nothing more than an average captain.

Ponting's captaincy has been divided into two phases, phase 1 where he inherited a great team from Waugh & most of the time since SRI 04 its been plane sailing for him except for Ashes. But that doesn't mean he is a tacticaly inept skipper that can't read the game i cast my mind back to a ODI vs WI in Malaysia with Gayle & C'Paul going absolute Ponting made some very clever bowling changes to manage to snatch a remarkable victory.

Phase two has only just begun where it is truly his team. If he can manage to not lose in India, keep up AUS solid record vs SA next season & keep the Ashes then i would be willing to make a solid judgement on his captaincy. But for sure he is a bit better than just average.

 

[andruid]

I don't think you can split it into two categories it should should go hand in hand.

West Indies yea were totally dominant between 76-86 blowing everyone away. Yes some of their greats declined a bit thus being challenged by AUS, PAK, NZ & IND over the next decade but it was a side of a great team that those magnificent players stuck in out & overcame those challenges.

AUS now are obvious a shadow of their dominant self of 95-06/07 (although they had an IND jinx they had to overcome) especially in the bowling ranks but still remain the best side in the world & should remain that way until they get a home series defeat for me at least since IND beating AUS @ home wouldn't make them WC like it was when AUS won in WI 95. It will just carry AUS back to their IND jinx of the past.

I disagree...it is possible to be the outright best Test team in the world without necessarily winning absoltely bevery series..

 

[pasag]

I honestly can't see what Ponting's done wrong here. He was being honest about the bowling and that's something you want to see. Everyone knows it, everyone has talked about, for him to come out and defend it and be diplomatic about it would be silly and that's never been his style which has always been direct, blunt and tells things the way he sees them. Furthermore, in general he readily praises the opposition for their victories against the side and doesn't try and make excuses, which was part of the reason that the comeback after 05 was so strong, that they weren't in denial but they worked on themselves to become a better side.

 

[Sanz]

http://blogs.abc.net.au/grandstand/2008/06/aussie-bowling.html?site=cricket

Listen to the interview - skip to 2:20 where he talks about the pitch and says something like

"I was just talking to Sarwan/Chanderpaul that it was a poor test wicket, them both getting runs, it was pretty good to bat on and you are not going to win test matches on those sort of pitches'

Pretty poor effort IMO. Common - Its a No. 1 team Vs. No. 8 with and he is complaing about the pitch.

 

[Richard]

I honestly can't see what Ponting's done wrong here. He was being honest about the bowling and that's something you want to see. Everyone knows it, everyone has talked about, for him to come out and defend it and be diplomatic about it would be silly and that's never been his style which has always been direct, blunt and tells things the way he sees them. Furthermore, in general he readily praises the opposition for their victories against the side and doesn't try and make excuses, which was part of the reason that the comeback after 05 was so strong, that they weren't in denial but they worked on themselves to become a better side.

Never really feel I can criticise a captain for being disappointed in failure to attain victory when time has been lost in a game anyway.