***Official*** Australia A and New Zealand A in India

[Perm]

I meant at domestic level, because as far as I know he doesn't take the gloves for Northern Districts with Peter McGlashan being the preferred option.

 

[bryce]

Yeah, but he is a quality keeper, he is an all-round athlete really his seamers are pretty decent too I remember him bowling me a couple times in the nets ha

 

[adharcric]

Honestly, why is Dhawal Kulkarni in this side? The sad part is that he'll probably play seeing as they'll want five bowlers and everyone besides Chawla and Mishra seems to be **** with the bat. Somebody mentioned Pathan. Hell, even Praveen Kumar - he should be in contention for a test call-up as well.

 

[bryce]

I feel it is safe to say Indian selectors have an infactuation with youngsters. They probaly think oh if he can perform in the IPL against that sort of opposition then he will have no problem in 50-over cricket, could be some harsh lessons

 

[pup11]

Awta.

 

[Arjun]

Honestly, why is Dhawal Kulkarni in this side? The sad part is that he'll probably play seeing as they'll want five bowlers and everyone besides Chawla and Mishra seems to be **** with the bat. Somebody mentioned Pathan. Hell, even Praveen Kumar - he should be in contention for a test call-up as well.

Vinay Kumar, among these options, is a good bet with the bat- not a genuine all-rounder, but more runs added from the lower order. A five-bowler attack would have all of Chawla, Mishra and Vinay Kumar. Some of these, however, should have also been considered-

• Rajesh Pawar
• R Ashwin
• Yo Mahesh
• Joginder Sharma
• Manpreet Gony
• SRK Vidyut
• Yusuf Pathan
• Abhishek Nayar
• Laxmiratan Shukla
• And of course, Praveen Kumar and Irfan Pathan

Not all-rounders by any means, but surely multi-purpose players who can fit in for at least one task, and contribute a fair bit with the other- like, say, Sohail Tanvir, Farveez Maharoof and now Thilan Thushara Mirando. A lower order of your best bowlers who are also capable with the bat will surely be useful, especially in ODIs.

All of these are surely A-team prospects, even if they have some way to go for a national team call-up.

 

[Arjun]

I feel it is safe to say Indian selectors have an infactuation with youngsters. They probaly think oh if he can perform in the IPL against that sort of opposition then he will have no problem in 50-over cricket, could be some harsh lessons

This is an India A team, not the national team or the Board team that plays visiting Test teams. The objective of such a team is development, not so much the next best XI in a match. It's a learning experience for these young recruits, when they play their counterparts from other countries, or abroad. They can benefit a lot more than some older players who've played for a long time in India (and also for India), who are not expected to improve anywhere.

 

[Arjun]

Proposed India A playing XI:

• Uthappa
• Pujara (Aus)/Dhawan(NZ)
• Kohli
• Badrinath (C)
• Kaif
• Patel (WK)
• Chawla (LB)
• Mishra (LB)
• Vinay Kumar (RM)
• Sudeep Tyagi (RM)
• Sreesanth (RFM)

It's a tough choice for the postion of opener, so Uthappa makes it because of his experience with the national team, and with Dhawan out for the first two matches, we may see Pujara ahead of the Mumbai openers.

 

[bryce]

This is an India A team, not the national team or the Board team that plays visiting Test teams. The objective of such a team is development, not so much the next best XI in a match. It's a learning experience for these young recruits, when they play their counterparts from other countries, or abroad. They can benefit a lot more than some older players who've played for a long time in India (and also for India), who are not expected to improve anywhere.

A national team means a national team and a 'A' team should mean an 'A' team imo, not that i'm against youngsters look at someone like sangwan has already proven himself at domestic level and he doesn't even make the team plus a he's a bit younger than kulkarni, unless they are sick of left armers haha, but bottom line I didn't think Kulkarni looked impressive enough in the IPL to be rushed into an Indian 'A' side

 

[Arjun]

A national team means a national team and a 'A' team should mean an 'A' team imo, not that i'm against youngsters look at someone like sangwan has already proven himself at domestic level and he doesn't even make the team plus a he's a bit younger than kulkarni, unless they are sick of left armers haha, but bottom line I didn't think Kulkarni looked impressive enough in the IPL to be rushed into an Indian 'A' side

Definitely, Sangwan would be a better choice than Kulkarni, though the youngster from Mumbai outperformed him. This team, however, should be used as a learning experience for the best of the younger cricketers, so that they get a taste of international action at reserve level. If we pick the supposedly older-but-better players, there's nothing they'll get out of it. In fact, there's a chance that they'll only play for their place in the national team, rather than to learn anything, or force a win for this team. We don't see other A-teams feature national team discards. This Australian reserve team doesn't have more than three known names.

 

[bryce]

If we pick the supposedly older-but-better players, there's nothing they'll get out of it. In fact, there's a chance that they'll only play for their place in the national team, rather than to learn anything, or force a win for this team.

Here is where I disagree. 'Older but better', I would change to 'older and proven'(meaning proven at First-Class level). Take for example 24 Year old Joginder Sharma(next Kapil Dev still?), averaging 30 with the bat and 20 with the ball in an outstanding FC career to date. He has potentially 10 years of top class cricket in him. Now if he was picked in the 'A' side and peformed well, the national players would feel the heat coming on their places in the side because they know he is a proven performer, and mentally be aware that if they do not perform they are going to lose their place. IMO, if India had a structure in place where there was continually players breathing down the neck of current national reps, they would be a much better performing national side.

We don't see other A-teams feature national team discards. This Australian reserve team doesn't have more than three known names.

The Australian team was largely picked on domestic form from the most recent domestic season. They realise form players in their mid-twenties still have an abundance of quality cricket in them, with potential to deveop even more. India, however, disregard their entire first-class structure, and with this, the youngsters pay a hefty cost too by getting selected before they have done anything, which imo has negative mental repercussions(Kaif,Sodhi,Karthik)

 

[Nate]

The Australian team was largely picked on domestic form from the most recent domestic season. They realise form players in their mid-twenties still have an abundance of quality cricket in them, with potential to deveop even more. India, however, disregard their entire first-class structure, and with this, the youngsters pay a hefty cost too by getting selected before they have done anything, which imo has negative mental repercussions(Kaif,Sodhi,Karthik)

Haha Bryce. Can't believe you're bothering to debate.

 

[bryce]

Haha Bryce. Can't believe you're bothering to debate.

Neither actually. Free time does crazy things

 

[Arjun]

Here is where I disagree. 'Older but better', I would change to 'older and proven'(meaning proven at First-Class level). Take for example 24 Year old Joginder Sharma(next Kapil Dev still?), averaging 30 with the bat and 20 with the ball in an outstanding FC career to date. He has potentially 10 years of top class cricket in him. Now if he was picked in the 'A' side and peformed well, the national players would feel the heat coming on their places in the side because they know he is a proven performer, and mentally be aware that if they do not perform they are going to lose their place. IMO, if India had a structure in place where there was continually players breathing down the neck of current national reps, they would be a much better performing national side.

Joginder Sharma is an exception. However, despite the fantastic stats, he doesn't offer anything special. He seems to bowl seam-up stuff, a lot like Ganguly, but more serious, but still not really strike bowler stuff. Then again, we see totally miscast pacers picked on promise of pace rather than performance- some can't even field, let alone bowl fast. This is too controversial an example.

The Australian team was largely picked on domestic form from the most recent domestic season. They realise form players in their mid-twenties still have an abundance of quality cricket in them, with potential to deveop even more. India, however, disregard their entire first-class structure, and with this, the youngsters pay a hefty cost too by getting selected before they have done anything, which imo has negative mental repercussions(Kaif,Sodhi,Karthik)

The players, still, are largely unknown, in comparison with the likes of Katich, Casson and Ronchi. In comparison, the likes of Chopra and Bhandari have been in the A-team as long as forever, but still haven't made the cut for the national team. If they had a good series and made the senior team, fair enough. If not, they've been found wanting. At this stage, they can't learn anything more, as they've already learnt enough, and should put it to use in a match. If they've failed in this series, they lose face. As for those examples, Kaif is still one of the tougher and more intelligent batsmen around missing out due to lack of 'glamour', Sodhi didn't have the body for the role and wicketkeeper-batsman prospect Karthik can't bat for toffees. All of them were fast-tracked from the U-19 circuit, which is a lot worse than picking from the domestic system.

Putting these two together:

• Need some domestic experience before A-team: Kukreja, Rahane, Pujara, VRV Singh, Sangwan, Kulkarni, Pankaj, Gony
• Good enough for A-team: Kaif (senior pro), Uthappa, Trivedi, Badrinath, Yusuf Pathan, Joginder, Chawla, Ojha, Karthik, Dhawan, Manhas, Tiwary, Bhatia, Tyagi
• Enough already, time for the national team, or Board XI, or bust: Chopra, Gambhir, Nehra, Bhandari, VVS Laxman, Bahutule, Mishra, Gagandeep, Mazumdar

 

[bryce]

The point I was trying to make was that being picked straight out of under 19's can detriment a players future, and imo it has negatively affected those three in some way

Putting these two together:

• Need some domestic experience before A-team: Kukreja, Rahane, Pujara, VRV Singh, Sangwan, Kulkarni, Pankaj, Gony
• Good enough for A-team: Kaif (senior pro), Uthappa, Trivedi, Badrinath, Yusuf Pathan, Joginder, Chawla, Ojha, Karthik, Dhawan, Manhas, Tiwary, Bhatia, Tyagi
• Enough already, time for the national team, or Board XI, or bust: Chopra, Gambhir, Nehra, Bhandari, VVS Laxman, Bahutule, Mishra, Gagandeep, Mazumdar

Agree with you mostly, i'll show you more how I view things using the players you used, basically i'd pick my Indian 'A' side from the top bracket of players

HAS shown domestic consistency, up for higher/'A' team consideration:Badrinath, Bhatia, Chawla, Dhawan, Gambhir, Kaif, Manhas, Mishra, Ohja, Y.Pathan, Pujara, Rahane, Sangwan, J.Sharma, G.Singh, Tiwary, Trivedi, Tyagi,

NOT currently good enough to be considered(imo), need to show domestic consistency:Gony, Kathik, Kulkarni, Kukreja, P.Singh, VRV Singh, Uthappa

Heading for scrapheap:Bahutule, Bhandari, Chopra, Laxman, Muzumdar, Nehra

 

[Arjun]

The point I was trying to make was that being picked straight out of under 19's can detriment a players future, and imo it has negatively affected those three in some way



Agree with you mostly, i'll show you more how I view things using the players you used, basically i'd pick my Indian 'A' side from the top bracket of players

HAS shown domestic consistency, up for higher/'A' team consideration:Badrinath, Bhatia, Chawla, Dhawan, Gambhir, Kaif, Manhas, Mishra, Ohja, Y.Pathan, Pujara, Rahane, Sangwan, J.Sharma, G.Singh, Tiwary, Trivedi, Tyagi,

NOT currently good enough to be considered(imo), need to show domestic consistency:Gony, Kathik, Kulkarni, Kukreja, P.Singh, VRV Singh, Uthappa

Heading for scrapheap:Bahutule, Bhandari, Chopra, Laxman, Muzumdar, Nehra

So you've put together the A-team and Senior team prospects together, to weed out the no-hopers? From that list, Ojha doesn't seem to be fit for the senior team, and needs to improve a little- take more wickets, rather than keep an economy down. Mishra, in comparison, should make the step up to the national team. Gambhir has thankfully made both teams and should stay there- if he loses his place, he shouldn't return to India A. Another spinner, Rajesh Pawar, should make the India A team for some international action, as he's a very useful prospect, especially in ODIs, He's got adequate domestic experience and is still quite young.

Rahane is way too raw for a promotion. He's got that fantastic average over 61, but he's played very few matches. Even Pujara is a prospect fast-tracked from the U-19 team. Asnodkar, relatively, has scored runs against top bowlers in the IPL, but he's not much of a Test prospect, as he's been more useful in limited-overs matches. Uthappa has been around longer, and needs A-team action, just to get in run-scoring action. In fact, the more valuable youngsters from the national team should go back to India A just to stay in action and get more runs and wickets, since they're (mostly) not likely to hold their places in the main team.

'Scrapheap' is very direct, but I was thinking, these players are either good enough for India or not good enough at all, so there's no point playing them in the A-team.

 

[Arjun]

The Times Of India is now complaining about Rohit Sharma not getting a place in the India A team. Maybe they have a point. He's struggling for form, he's batting at a thankless Number Seven position and could surely use this series to (im)prove himself. Being a relatively senior player in the team, he can add value at #4 in the order, more than, say, Kohli or Pujara. With the Fab Four not doing well lately, they need a second line, and he's a very important prospect here (compared to Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Kukreja), so he could use this series- for a change, TOI has a point.

 

[bryce]

Rahane is way too raw for a promotion. He's got that fantastic average over 61, but he's played very few matches. Even Pujara is a prospect fast-tracked from the U-19 team.

This is the great thing about 'A' sides when used correctly, they provide reward and incentive for well performing domestic players without really being a promotion since 'A' team fixtures are typically sporadic events. Rahane and Pujara both have not played much domestic cricket but why not test them in a different enviroment against stronger opposition seeing as they both have already shown they can score consistently at domestic level. The difference with Kulkarni is that he hasn't proven himself against anyone of note in any of the two forms of cricket the 'A' fixtures consist of, I would not be in complete disagreement if Kulkarni was selected for T20 'A' matches since he has proven himself in that form in the IPL, but this is obviously not the case. Also I prefer Saha to Karthik, and Chawla to Ohja. Cannot say i've seen enough of Mishra to judge, but I did see some of him in the IPL and he did look like a very good bowler.

'Scrapheap' is very direct, but I was thinking, these players are either good enough for India or not good enough at all, so there's no point playing them in the A-team.

The title of the category was heading for scrapheap, meaning they are not necessarily there yet but most certainly heading that way if they do not start finding form

 

[honestbharani]

Mostly agree with Bryce's earlier list, except for Chopra.. I think you were harsh on him, but otherwise, that is my opinion too.

 

[bryce]

Mostly agree with Bryce's earlier list, except for Chopra.. I think you were harsh on him, but otherwise, that is my opinion too.

I do think he's a good player but I was mainly meaning that if he does not score some big runs in the next season or two then he will fall right out of contention for higher honours, taking into consideration his age the young openers coming through