Non-whites in SA cricket

[Marius]

It was on teletext in england a couple of weeks ago. Of all those players you have said about, none are (in my view) good enough to play for SA

Do you even know who these players are? Which of these have you actually seen play? Whose stats have you seen that make you sure they aren't good enough to play for SA?

 

[Marius]

Just for the record I agree that selecting people based on their skin colour is very silly, and is doing exactly what the apartheid government legislated for. On the other hand South Africa is a unique society with unique needs, and issues like affirmative action will remain with us for a long time to come. But as I mentioned there are five non-whites in the WI touring squad, all five are there on merit.

 

[Richard]

It's so stupid in spite of just about everyone in the World thinking it is it?

No, everyone in The World doesn't think it - there are some people who've this obsession with attacking bowling being "in the spirit of the game"; the sensible people realise that economy-rate is the most important thing.

Wickets in hand mean huge last overs on almost every occasion, thus wickets are a very important part of the game.

No, they just have done since the standard of bowling at the death has gone down. Funnily enough, the standard of bowling at the start and in the middle has gone down at the same time.

 

[Richard]

over 10 overs, this horrendous 0.6 equates to a whole 6 runs.

I'd take that in exchange for an extra wicket.

Except as you know perfectly well it doesn't work like that.

 

[Richard]

Yeah, it's shocking really, how a country cannot pick their best players, just who the government tell them to pick. People like ontong, amla and tsolekile are just not good enough for international cricket (amla the best of the 3), and if it was properly selected we would never have heard of them.

Amla was someone who had to be selected.
You ignore a First-Class average of 50 only if you're a stupid selector.
And Ontong wouldn't have been selected but for the "variation" rubbish that sees Boje picked almost every game, either.
Name a better wicketkeeper-batsman in South Africa than Tsolekile (and it seems to me they were determined to drop Boucher)?

 

[Richard]

How do you know? You are speaking rubbish you poephol. Right now there are five non-whites, all there on merit, in the 15 man squad to tour WI (Ntini, Zondeki, Prince, Gibbs and Langeveldt). All of them, with the possible exception of Langeveldt (although he is only 30 he seems pretty injury prone) are young enough to be at the 2007 World Cup. Added to that there are a crap load of up and coming non-white players that could be in the frame for 2007 that are playing provincial cricket.
Ethy Mbhalati - fast bowler from the Titans
Alfonso Thomas - allrounder from the Titans
Gulam Bodi - allrounder from the Titans
Willie Motaung - opening bat from the Lions
Justin Ontong - batsman from the Lions
Imraan Khan - opening bat and offie from the Dolphins
Mfuneko Ngam - fast bowler from the Dolphins (although I think he's moving back to the Eastern Cape for the next season)
Thandi Tshabala - offie from the Eagles
Brent Kops - left arm quickie from the Warriors
Brendon Reddy - allrounder from the Titans (I think he's injured at the moment, but he scored a FC century at a run-a-ball when he was about 17, and I think he's still only about 20, so you'll be hearing about him in the future)

These are just off the top of my head. All of them, with the exception of Thomas, Bodi and Ngam all are younger than 25, and this group of guys gives you the makings of a pretty good squad. I don't think there will be any problem in picking seven non-whites on merit for the squad for the 2007 World Cup.

TBH I can't really see many of these players making the grade in ODIs in the near future (and, like Grandmother's Footsteps, WC2007 is now only 2 years away).
In Test-matches some may have a future - Ngam and Zondeki especially. Alfonso Thomas, too, I struggle to see why the like of Steyn get picked ahead of him.
But the only coloured players I feel should be near the ODI side right now are Langeveldt, Ntini, Gibbs and (amazingly) Prince.

 

[Richard]

This is the story.

It disturbs me to see ethnic selection at such an advance level - no one's got any real idea who's going to emerge and break through to national selection. If you only allow yourselves eight whites, you'll probably end up in the stupid situation you found in 2003 when Graeme Smith got de-selected, or when Jacques Rudolph was told he was making his debut, then the decision reversed because he was the wrong colour.

Graeme got de-selected?
First I've heard of that one... maybe you could elaborate?
Personally I think it's a shame Rudolph ever made his Test-debut...

 

[Neil Pickup]

De-Selected as was an ODI regular throught the autumn of 2002, and then suddenly wasn't in the original squad for the World Cup, only to be recalled when Jonty Rhodes got injured against Kenya, and go straight into the team.

 

[Richard]

This sort of regular?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Regular enough to be a certain for the fifteen.

 

[Richard]

I agree it was strange not to select him - but selectors have made stupid decisions before, you know.

 

[marc71178]

Except as you know perfectly well it doesn't work like that.

That is what it'll average out to.

6 extra runs conceded for a much greater percentage increase in wickets over 10 overs.

 

[marc71178]

This sort of regular?

Ho ho, look at what he's done, taken out lots of games that happened.

For the record, from debut up to the World Cup he'd played 19 out of 25 games...

 

[Langeveldt]

Just for the record I agree that selecting people based on their skin colour is very silly, and is doing exactly what the apartheid government legislated for. On the other hand South Africa is a unique society with unique needs, and issues like affirmative action will remain with us for a long time to come. But as I mentioned there are five non-whites in the WI touring squad, all five are there on merit.

Spot on.. Who they select for their god damn sports team is of little significance anyway.. There are far more important things in life, more important issues to challenge..

Fact of the matter is, no players in this squad don't deserve to be there. A lot more than can be said for other countries who can't hide behind the scapegoat of skin colour..

 

[username1234]

Is the minister or whoever's in control of south african cricket black or white?

 

[Marius]

Is the minister or whoever's in control of south african cricket black or white?

Is that relevant? Do some research you lazy Kiwi fool.

 

[Langeveldt]

Is the minister or whoever's in control of south african cricket black or white?

Black... Why does that matter??

You sound like you are stuck in the 1980's.. No offence or anything, but most of us learnt to see past all that about ten years ago..

 

[Marius]

Langeveldt, is it so refreshing to find another South African who can see past all this stupid racist nonsense. Who cares about the colour of people's skin? I don't agree with all AA policies but they are probably for the better. LONG LIVE SA CRICKET!

 

[Swervy]

Langeveldt, is it so refreshing to find another South African who can see past all this stupid racist nonsense. Who cares about the colour of people's skin? I don't agree with all AA policies but they are probably for the better. LONG LIVE SA CRICKET!

I dont even think he is south African...I maybe wrong though?????

 

[chekmeout]

I do not see the point of this thread anyways. Monitoring South African players progress on the basis of their skin color... doesn't make sense