New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[Perm]

Is he the brother to Brendan?

Sure is, Stu McCullum is their father. He was a bit of an Otago legend.

 

[el grapadura]

Basically, Franklin probably is the best #9 but, and its a big but, does he deserve to get into the side for his bowling? After all he is a bowling all-rounder.

And the answer to that question is no, when we are at full strength he should not be in the ODI XI. Yes, he offers variety being a left-armer, and gets swing early on sometimes, but he still bowls a four-ball or two every over. And when it doesn't swing, well thats another story. He has a good game every now and again, but in between.......

Nobody is 'bashing' his batting ability at #9 methinks.

You gotta ask yourself, do you wanna sacrifice 50+ off 10 just so you can get a quick 20 runs at #9?

Based on the available crop of seam bowlers, he does. Like I said, none of the other three seam options at the WC can claim to be better ODI bowlers than Franklin - their records clearly indicate that. And none of them is anywhere near as good a bat as Franklin. So given the resources available to us right now, Franklin is really the best option. But like I also said in my original post, healthy Mills changes that, but he's not available now, is he?

 

[Prince EWS]

Like I said, none of the other three seam options at the WC can claim to be better ODI bowlers than Franklin - their records clearly indicate that.

ODI Cricket
Franklin - Avg: 38.71, RPO: 5.06
Gillespie - Avg: 36.11, RPO: 5.27
Martin - Avg: 36.09, RPO: 5.43
Mason - Avg: 35.23, RPO: 5.08

List A Cricket
Franklin - Avg: 33.07, RPO: 4.72
Gillespie - Avg: 29.52, RPO: 4.95
Martin - Avg: 26.91, RPO: 4.67
Mason - Avg: 24.79, RPO: 4.31

Now, you could make a case for it I supoose, but I wouldn't say their records "clearly indicated" it.

 

[el grapadura]

ODI Cricket
Franklin - Avg: 38.71, RPO: 5.06
Gillespie - Avg: 36.11, RPO: 5.27
Martin - Avg: 36.09, RPO: 5.43
Mason - Avg: 35.23, RPO: 5.08

List A Cricket
Franklin - Avg: 33.07, RPO: 4.72
Gillespie - Avg: 29.52, RPO: 4.95
Martin - Avg: 26.91, RPO: 4.67
Mason - Avg: 24.79, RPO: 4.31

Now, you could make a case for it I supoose, but I wouldn't say their records "clearly indicated" it.

Don't they? It looks to me that the stats clearly suggest that none of the three guys in question bowl better than Franklin in ODIs. And Franklin's a far superior batsman to any of them, so it makes perfect sense to play him in this situation.

 

[Prince EWS]

Don't they? It looks to me that the stats clearly suggest that none of the three guys in question bowl better than Franklin in ODIs. And Franklin's a far superior batsman to any of them, so it makes perfect sense to play him in this situation.

So Mason with a better average and an extremely-marginally worse economy rate clearly doesn't bowl better than him, according to the stats?? Wow!

 

[el grapadura]

So Mason with a better average and an extremely-marginally worse economy rate clearly doesn't bowl better than him, according to the stats?? Wow!

Check your own stats - Mason's economy rate is worse than Franklin's, if only marginally. Mason's average is greatly helped by a single good performance of 4 for 20-odd against SL in Chch this summer, on a really seamer friendly pitch - this clearly helps since Mason's only played a handful of games and has hardly been a wicket-taker at international level.

TBH though, all the averages and ERs are pretty poor for international bowlers - all I'm saying is that given the circumstances, Franklin's easily the best option

EDIT: Whoops, my bad just re-read your post and realised I look like a bit of a moron now...

 

[thierry henry]

Unfortunately for Franklin I think he's gonna be pigeon holed as a test player after this World Cup. He's been fortunate that we havent really had any other decent options recently but I feel we should really be playing Gillespie as he has pace and has shown he can score some handy runs.

Our first choice bowling lineup should be: Bond, Mills, Gillespie, Vettori, Oram and Styris. that's a good attack.

You seem to be a big fan of Gillespie. imo he is no more than a tail-ender, and furthermore he has proved to be very expensive in both domestic and international one-day cricket. I don't think he is a good OD bowler at all.

 

[thierry henry]

Furthermore, Gillespie only bowls quick once in a blue moon...as does Franklin actually...Gillespie's pace is really of very little merit in international cricket, being brisk once or twice a series is really worth little.

 

[thierry henry]

What has Patel done to be considered poor?. Pretty decent off spinner IMO.

Poor record in all forms, tbh. Doesn't take wickets in FC cricket, expensive in OD cricket. He *looks* to have talent, because he can turn the ball sharply with decent accuracy, but he doesn't seem to be a smart or varied enough bowler at this stage.

 

[corza_nz]

Furthermore, Gillespie only bowls quick once in a blue moon...as does Franklin actually...Gillespie's pace is really of very little merit in international cricket, being brisk once or twice a series is really worth little.

you've never liked gillespie have you! hes a very handy bowler tbh.

 

[Smudge]

Poor record in all forms, tbh. Doesn't take wickets in FC cricket, expensive in OD cricket. He *looks* to have talent, because he can turn the ball sharply with decent accuracy, but he doesn't seem to be a smart or varied enough bowler at this stage.

You don't rate Patel, you don't think Vettori spins it all - hell, you don't even like Styris bowling his off-cutters regularly. Are you on a one-man mission to eradicate spin bowling from the Black Caps, and eventually New Zealand cricket?

 

[KiWiNiNjA]

You don't rate Patel, you don't think Vettori spins it all - hell, you don't even like Styris bowling his off-cutters regularly. Are you on a one-man mission to eradicate spin bowling from the Black Caps, and eventually New Zealand cricket?

It will be a quick eradication. We only have like 6 spinners.....



......and that includes me

 

[Smudge]

And I only get in one game a season (even if this season it was a stunning spell of two for none off three balls).

 

[Tim]

We're not exactly brimming with bowling talent right now. You seem to dismiss every bowler we have thierry like we've got plenty more to take their place.

 

[thierry henry]

You don't rate Patel, you don't think Vettori spins it all - hell, you don't even like Styris bowling his off-cutters regularly. Are you on a one-man mission to eradicate spin bowling from the Black Caps, and eventually New Zealand cricket?

Hey, blame the batsmen. Patel spins it and gets hit, Vettori doesn't and the batsmen of the world can't pick it.

As for Styris, he was going perfectly well as a medium pacer and I really can't think of a single case of a guy who bowled 105kph off-spinners off a 20 pace run up and succeeded as an international bowler in the last 40 years. Well, I can't think of anyone who bowled that way at all. It doesn't seem to be working any better (perhaps slightly worse?) than the old seam up bowling. It's like a style of bowling I imagine some old "off-cutter" bowler would have tormented batsmen with on dodgy pitches 100+ years ago.

 

[thierry henry]

We're not exactly brimming with bowling talent right now. You seem to dismiss every bowler we have thierry like we've got plenty more to take their place.

Ermmm, no. I just dismiss all the talk about this ordinary bowler vs that ordinary bowler simply by saying that it hardly matters. Neither Patel nor Gillespie has performed well at domestic OR international one-day level (actually, Gillespie's domestic one-day record is remarkably poor given that we have hordes of guys with decent bowling records. He must have one of the highest economy rates in the country). I'm just saying, I don't see either Patel or Gillespie ever amounting to much as international cricketers. Arguing Franklin v Mason v Gillespie is really neither here nor there, might as well keep Franklin in for his batting, and for continuity given that he's a test regular.

 

[Smudge]

, I don't see either Patel or Gillespie ever amounting to much as international cricketers. Arguing Franklin v Mason v Gillespie is really neither here nor there, might as well keep Franklin in for his batting, and for continuity given that he's a test regular.

That's nice - now how about you offer some alternatives?

 

[Dick Rockett]

I have to say that you come across as pretty negative in your assessments of pretty much every New Zealand player, thierry.

I think it's pretty harsh to be making these calls about Patel and Gillespie in particular, considering that they have only been in the international side for five minutes. Franklin I can understand, as he's been around for a while now and has proven to be a liability in the one day side, imo.

 

[Dasgupta]

I have to say that you come across as pretty negative in your assessments of pretty much every New Zealand player, thierry.

I think it's pretty harsh to be making these calls about Patel and Gillespie in particular, considering that they have only been in the international side for five minutes. Franklin I can understand, as he's been around for a while now and has proven to be a liability in the one day side, imo.

Franklin did himself no favours today that's for sure

 

[Dick Rockett]

Couldn't understand why Fleming kept him on at the end. Vettori had just taken a wicket and was keeping the runs down, but Franklin just haemorrhages from the other end.