Myths propogated by media and lapped up by fans.

[Deja moo]

What do you guys know about this Indulker fellow? My bombay buddy swears that he's the second coming of Tendulkar, perhaps even better.

haha...your Bombay buddy's taking the pi$$ out of you...

 

[SJS]

What do you guys know about this Indulker fellow? My bombay buddy swears that he's the second coming of Tendulkar, perhaps even better.

The only thing he has similar to Sachin is the last seven letters in his family name.

 

[Pratters]

As a pure batsman, i'd take Sehwag.

The fact that there will be the likes of Flintoff in the side makes Sehwag's selection more apt as Gayle would not be required to bowl that much any way.

 

[Pratters]

What do you guys know about this Indulker fellow? My bombay buddy swears that he's the second coming of Tendulkar, perhaps even better.

 

[marc71178]

The fact that there will be the likes of Flintoff in the side makes Sehwag's selection more apt as Gayle would not be required to bowl that much any way.

Surely the converse can apply.

With the likes of Flintoff in there, a batsman who scores more runs (at a slightly slower pace) is a better option?

 

[Pedro Delgado]

What do you guys know about this Indulker fellow? My bombay buddy swears that he's the second coming of Tendulkar, perhaps even better.

Good to see our Indian friends keeping things in perspective, as per .

Gotta love 'em.

 

[SJS]

MYTH # 2 : The Indian bowling is weak thanks to toothless new ball attack and if the "GREAT" Indian spinners had more support from the new ball trundlers India would be world beaters !!

Really !!

While it is true that the Indian medium pacers are lacking in speed which hurts and , at times, even makes up for lack of movement by making the batsmen falter by pure lack of time to decide, it is a fallacy to think that the Indian spinners have done a great job, particularly in the one day format where we are struggling the most.

Our Prince of Kolkata's favourite spinner in the world, Shri Harbhajan "doosra" Singh has only two things in common with his illustrious counterpart from the emarald island - the direction in which he turns the ball and the fact that both have been under scrutiny for suspect actions.

Unlike Murali whose face is contorted in his effort to freakishly tweak the ball as he delivers it and breaks into a big toothy grin as he fools the batsman with yet another master delivery, Harbhajan pulls back both his arms as he starts his kip and jump towards the wicket and selivers. Then, if he gets the wicket he starts abusing , God knows who, in chaste Punjabi with choicest mother f***** and sister f***** stuff as he pumps his fists to hammer an imaginary fallen foe.

Unfortunately, our Turbanator (he does wear a meticulously tied a turban still) has not had too many chances to excercise his arms on the air bag and teach make the umpires rush to look at Punjabi dictionaries too often in the last one year.

In twelve months since October last year, Mr Harbhajan Singh has played in no less than 18 ODI's in which he has bagged a grand total of 11 wickets at , HOLD YOUR BREATH, 69 runs each AND a strike rate of, I HOPE YOU DIDNT LET THAT BREATH OUT YET, of a wicket every 90 deliveries. This from our premium strike bowler.

Why do you want the Nehra's and Agarkar's and Pathan's to be the targets of your frustrations, why ? Because you have got it deeply esconsed in your head that Harbhajan, being Harbhajan, must have been bowling well. Dont you watch your cricket.

And this from bowlers who are so pampered that its not funny.

To start with wickets at home are made to suit the spinners. Thus our spinners take enough wickets in the matches(at least in the longer version) played at home that even the pathetic performances abroad leave the averages good enough for the fans to go home feeling they are in posession of God's gift to the game in the form of "greats' from the land of spinners.

So used are they to bowling on spinning tracks that they have never bothered to inculcate the art of bowling on flatter wickets whether overseas in the longer version of the game or everywhere in the shorter version.

That is why a Virender Sehwag is more willing to flight the ball and manage to get the batsman than a Harbhajan who, faced with a batting track bowls flatter and faster in order not to get hit.

Indian spinners are so protected that they have become useless. Prasanna, Bedi and Gupte would flight more, not less on flat tracks because when the wicket does not take turn, decieving in flight is the only way left for an attacking spinner. But we dont have attacking spinners. we have spinners who will either take wickets on tracks made for them or blame the authorities for not making tracks to suit the home team as the rest of the world does.

....to be continued

 

[vic_orthdox]

Prasanna, Bedi and Gupte would flight more, not less on flat tracks because when the wicket does not take turn, decieving in flight is the only way left for an attacking spinner. But we dont have attacking spinners. we have spinners who will either take wickets on tracks made for them or blame the authorities for not making tracks to suit the home team as the rest of the world does.

So true, and explains the discrepancy between the speeds of spinners from sub-continent and the other nations.

 

[SJS]

By the way, the figures of the other Indian spinner, the much maligned(in the limited over game) Kumble for the same period are also revealing.

Prefered for only 3 games(against 18 for Harbhajan) by his country (he played two other games for the ICC XI and the Asian XI) Kumble took 5 wickets for India at an average of 32 runs each and a strike rate of 36. And we are made to believe AND WE AGREE !!! that Harbhajan is a better one day bowler than Kumble.

I must add, however that Kumble in the limited opportunities he got gave 5.2 runs per over against 4.6 by Harbhajan.

 

[tooextracool]

In twelve months since October last year, Mr Harbhajan Singh has played in no less than 18 ODI's in which he has bagged a grand total of 11 wickets at , HOLD YOUR BREATH, 69 runs each AND a strike rate of, I HOPE YOU DIDNT LET THAT BREATH OUT YET, of a wicket every 90 deliveries. This from our premium strike bowler.

Why do you want the Nehra's and Agarkar's and Pathan's to be the targets of your frustrations, why ? Because you have got it deeply esconsed in your head that Harbhajan, being Harbhajan, must have been bowling well. Dont you watch your cricket.

actually a spinner's job in ODI cricket in general is not to take wickets, but to restrict the scoring.there are very few spin bowlers who are actually strike bowlers-murali,warne and Saqlain but almost all of the others just provide the containment. if people were expecting harbhajan or kumble to be their strike bowler in ODI cricket well its not surprising that their disappointed, because they're not picked to be strike bowlers.
the problem for india is that nehra, pathan etc, cant take wickets or contain the batsmen,

 

[tooextracool]

Look back where for Gayle vs Sehwag? And why should stats be the be all and end all in deciding a selection.



2nd best all rounder in the world - chris gayle?

Some better all rounders than Gayle:

Pakistan - Shahid Afridi, Abdul Razzaq
New Zealand - Chris Cairns
Sri Lanka - Sanath Jayasuriya

ALSO

Do we want to chose an opening all rounder or a batsman who scores faster considering Flintoff will already be in the team as an all rounder!

how in the world are any of those players anywhere near as good as gayle as all rounders? cairns is the only one who has any sort of claim and even hes past it.
as far as scoring faster is concerned, its not like gayle cant score quickly either, and hes more likely to play according to the situation and score big than sehwag is.

 

[SJS]

The Balance Sheet

Total Wickets taken
By Spinners : 24
By M Pacers : 88

Runs per Wkt
Spinners : 52.7
M Pacers : 26.9

Strike Rate
Spinners : 64.3
M Pacers : 32.8

its clear who has been doing what.

Still we have some self appointed cricket experts who feel spinners are not there to take wickets but to check runs. Ha ha ha. People really know the game very well.

We checked the economy rate for curiosity sake and guess what ? The arm chair experts were spot on ! Here are the runs per over...

Spinners a highly creditable 4.92

and the Medium Pacers ?

a highly deplorable 4.93

Leaving the arm chair critics to their own ravings and rantings. Lets look into which amongst our bowlers performs the best and which the worst.

Runs per wicket : The much denounced Agarkar and Nehra (in that order) top the list of seven bowlers. followed by Pathan, Kumble and Zaheer in that order. Mr Harbhajan Singh brings up the rear.

Balls per wicket : Again AA and Nehra are on top, followed by Pathan, Kumble and Sehwag. Harbhajan is gallantly shoring up the rear once again.

On economy rate, Harbhajan (4.61) and Agarkar(4,66) are on top followed by Pathan and Nehra at 4.8 and 4.9 respectively. Nehra 5.1 and Kumble 5.2 are next.

We can take our pick as to who are the bowlers who have let us down.

 

[SJS]

Our spinners versus other top spinners in ODI's

Intrigued by the arm chair Guru's pronouncement on the role of the spinner in limited overs cricket we decided to check how the top spinners in the world have been faring. There are five spinners widely accepted as top of the trade in the world. Warne, Murali, Vettori and our own Kumble and Harbhajan.

Of these warne has stopped playing ODI's. So we decided to take the figures of the other two and rate them against our champions. here are the reults. It shows clearly how well our spinners have been fulfilling the role of containment which , we are told, is a spinners sole job in limited overs cricket.

Clearly, our spinners are in a league of their own while other spinners clearly over step their limits and besides keeping down the runs, take wickets much more frequently and at lower costs that they have been hired to do

PS : Vettori isnt the most economical bowler in his side but he is the highest wicket taker in last 12 months in ODI's along with Kyle Mills. Similarly, Murali is a big wicket taker, Last year he played few matches so the highest wicket taker for Sri Lanka is another spinner U Chandana.

19 wickets at 28.74 each and a strike rate of 36.3 with an economy rate of 4.74, not the best for sure

 

[honestbharani]

I do think the time has come for us to look at other spinning options beyond Harbhajan and Kumble. Both of them bowl too full in length to be effective in ODIs. It is almost a perfect length for tests, but in ODIs, you gotta bowl a tad fuller than good length but nothing more. Sehwag and Yuvraj bowled that length yesterday and were successful. The reasons are simple. When you bowl that length, the ball can do anything... IT can turn big, it can turn the other way, it can be the faster flatter one that hurries on with the arm.. Therefore, the batsmen generally are wary about sweeping or reverse sweeping or playing other such premeditated shots, which is the way the Aussies, Kiwis, Proteas, Poms are playing spinners these days anyway.

 

[SJS]

I do think the time has come for us to look at other spinning options beyond Harbhajan and Kumble. Both of them bowl too full in length to be effective in ODIs. It is almost a perfect length for tests, but in ODIs, you gotta bowl a tad fuller than good length but nothing more. Sehwag and Yuvraj bowled that length yesterday and were successful. The reasons are simple. When you bowl that length, the ball can do anything... IT can turn big, it can turn the other way, it can be the faster flatter one that hurries on with the arm.. Therefore, the batsmen generally are wary about sweeping or reverse sweeping or playing other such premeditated shots, which is the way the Aussies, Kiwis, Proteas, Poms are playing spinners these days anyway.

I agree with both points.
1. We cant look beyond Harbhajan and Kumble as of now. Sad but true.
2. Harbhajan's problem as i have said ad nauseam is that he bowls between good length and short of it instead of between good length and fuller than it. He is too worried about being hit which makes him in effective and he still bowls the odd short ball which can be hit without risk.

The point of this , however, was not to denounce Harbhajan or ask for his replacement but to show up the myth being propogated that India's poor bowling (in ODI's) should be read to mean new ball bowlers who lack speed.

 

[honestbharani]

I agree with both points.
1. We cant look beyond Harbhajan and Kumble as of now. Sad but true.
2. Harbhajan's problem as i have said ad nauseam is that he bowls between good length and short of it instead of between good length and fuller than it. He is too worried about being hit which makes him in effective and he still bowls the odd short ball which can be hit without risk.

The point of this , however, was not to denounce Harbhajan or ask for his replacement but to show up the myth being propogated that India's poor bowling (in ODI's) should be read to mean new ball bowlers who lack speed.

But, SJS, if you look at the last match, Harbhajan in his second spell was basically bowling too full for his own good. That is how he got tonked for the six and 2 4s. Bowling right upto the bat, u may get a few inside edges or LBWs when the batsmen are defensive, but when they are on the move, it is suicide.

 

[SJS]

But, SJS, if you look at the last match, Harbhajan in his second spell was basically bowling too full for his own good. That is how he got tonked for the six and 2 4s. Bowling right upto the bat, u may get a few inside edges or LBWs when the batsmen are defensive, but when they are on the move, it is suicide.

Firstly, I am not specifically talking of the finals. I did not see India bowling and dont know what he bowled. i am talking of how he has been bowling in ODI's in general.

Secondly, sixes are normally hit, off spinners, off good length deliveries only. Thats not surprising. Its when they are half volleys that they tend to be hit along the ground. The point is that if the ball is not turning, your good length deliveries WILL get hit once the batsmen settle down. so you need to bowl SLOWER through the air. Its bt bowling flatter, even if bowling good length, that you are making it easier for the batsman (as far as an error of judgement is concerned) to tonk you.

Harbhajan, as I have said earlier, is bowling flatter and faster in the Venkataraghavan mould rather than higher and slower like Prasanna. In both types of bowling you can pitch on a good length but the loop which can decieve the batsman regarding the point of the balls landing is missing in the former case. When that happens, it increases the chances that the batsman will miss the ball if it turns on pitching or mi**** if it doesnt.

 

[honestbharani]

But Bhajji was not pitching it on good length. He was overpitching it. And really, it becomes a lot easier for the batsmen to loft the ball when it is overpitched than when it is in good length.

 

[SJS]

it becomes a lot easier for the batsmen to loft the ball when it is overpitched than when it is in good length.

Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this. So I will leave it at that.

As regards what Bhajji bowled, I have already said, i didnt see what he bowled in that game and wasnt talking of it specifically. I was talking of his bowling over the last 12 months.

By the way, I was talking to to Maninder Singh yesterday, I know him from my Delhi cricket days, and he also felt Bhajji was bowling far too flat and fastish and seemed intent on containaing the runs rather than attacking the batsman. And he watched the finals.

 

[honestbharani]

Clearly we have a difference of opinion on this. So I will leave it at that.

As regards what Bhajji bowled, I have already said, i didnt see what he bowled in that game and wasnt talking of it specifically. I was talking of his bowling over the last 12 months.

By the way, I was talking to to Maninder Singh yesterday, I know him from my Delhi cricket days, and he also felt Bhajji was bowling far too flat and fastish and seemed intent on containaing the runs rather than attacking the batsman. And he watched the finals.

he did bowl too flat on occassions, esp. in his first spell. But I am talking about his second spell, when both Yuvraj and Sehwag were flighting it and bowling it just short of good length and he was bowling flat and overpitching it.