Moeen Ali racially abused

[sledger]

Well technically it's not "racist". S.Kennedy is spot on. It's still poor form though, but "racist" sounds a lot better in headlines.

If you honestly think this has nothing to do with Moeen's ethnicity then you are deluded.

 

[Spark]

Yepp yepp yepp

magnificent in its predictably, the old "obviously indefensible comment is just fine because it doesn't fulfill the strict dictionary definition that i pulled out of my ass"

anyway, i continue to maintain that the comment, whilst not great, is not as egregious as the "defence", which is utterly contemptuous and contemptible

 

[the big bambino]

You’re a strange human being

And you're sanctimonious.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Yepp yepp yepp

Wow you predicted that some people would something that is completely accurate and relevant to the discussion, you're amazing

If you honestly think this has nothing to do with Moeen's ethnicity then you are deluded.

And this is related to what I said because . . .

magnificent in its predictably, the old "obviously indefensible comment is just fine because it doesn't fulfill the strict dictionary definition that i pulled out of my ass"

anyway, i continue to maintain that the comment, whilst not great, is not as egregious as the "defence", which is utterly contemptuous and contemptible

Except no one has said it's "just fine", so what is the point of this comment

 

[the big bambino]

It clearly is racist but **** the posters saying our whole country is this or that. Maybe the old farts but most young people lean left

Dearie me.

 

[sledger]

The Harbhajan incident in 08 proves that there is not much point in reporting these things - you get hung out to dry by your cricket board (although maybe it's only CA that hates its players).

There's not much to gain by Moeen here by going public because he's now going to be getting all the victim blaming that seems too happen.

On the other hand, a single stupid comment does not and should not see someone tarred and feathered, but in today's society that's what happens.

I mean what if it was someone like Mike Hussey who said it in the heat of the moment (this is an example and I'm in no way implying Hussey was involved or would even do such a thing)? Would that one incident have automatically made him a bad person?

I'm personally inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt once out twice but if it's a repeated pattern that's when things become a problem. I have in the past said some racist/ ***ist/ homophobic/ mean spirited things which I'm most certainly not proud of and would not repeat today but it's not a pattern. We're all humans and make mistakes.

Which is why I think the whole Warner/ speak English thing was stupid but his being perma- banned from the leadership for sandpapergate was entirely justified.

Racism is horrible but I genuinely think branding people as racist is counterproductive. Saying that something they're doing is racist or at the very least offensive is productive because it's no longer about the individual's identity, it's about their actions. Identity is personal and cannot change but actions can be changed.

Like, I used to use a four letter abbreviation to describe Pakistanis until I learned that it is offensive in the UK.

I know that this is tangential to the actual topic but I think it's important to remember - attack actions, not identity. And if you'll notice, politicians use the opposite all the time - they try to skiing mud at the identity of their opposition (the left are a bunch of ivory tower academics who don't understand the real world/ the right are a bunch of dinosaurs who want us to go back to the 50s).

On this case, calling Moeen "Osama" was obviously intended to be highly offensive. This behaviour is unacceptable and the player who did so should be made to realise it. Labeling a player racist doesn't help anyone.

No, I'm sorry, but some identities should quite rightly be chastised.

E.g. racists, homophobes, people who ask for their steak well done, agent nationaux, socialists etc.

 

[cnerd123]

If you honestly think this has nothing to do with Moeen's ethnicity then you are deluded.

Yea exactly. I don't think Wayne Parnell - who has now converted to Islam, changed his name to Walid, and sports a long beard - will ever be called 'Osama' in a derogatory manner.

 

[sledger]

And this is related to what I said because . . .

Because you said the comments were not racist.

 

[GIMH]

And you're sanctimonious.

Cool, I’m not someone who will jump on every word and shout outrage, believe me. But racism is racism and some of the things rebounded at Ali for mentioning this are somewhat distasteful. I think Red Hill is a good bloke which is why I said what I did, whereas if it was a mouth breathing neanderthal like you I’d have laughed it off and moved on. Cheers.

 

[stephen]

I think we need a word like anti-Semitic to describe Islamic stereotyping.

Being anti- Muslim isn't racist under the strict definition but it often is a guise for racism since the offensive nature of the comments is so often mixed with the ethnicity of middle eastern Muslims.

Islam is as diverse and divided as every other major religion on the planet. There are major divides and minor divides in its practice. There are some violent militants who are Muslims, but that's also been true for every other religion out there (look at the UK - it wasn't that long ago there was religious violence there between ostensibly Christian groups).

So yes, anti-Muslim slurs are not necessarily racist, but most often they're associated with the ethnicity and not the religion, which does make them racist.

Calling a man of middle eastern appearance "Osama" in a way that is meant to offend is absolutely racist.

 

[GIMH]

No, I'm sorry, but some identities should quite rightly be chastised.

E.g. racists, homophobes, people who ask for their steak well done, agent nationaux, socialists etc.

Can’t disagree with any of that, can we also add Bolton fans?

 

[GIMH]

I think we need a word like anti-Semitic to describe Islamic stereotyping.

Being anti- Muslim isn't racist under the strict definition but it often is a guise for racism since the offensive nature of the comments is so often mixed with the ethnicity of middle eastern Muslims.

Islam is as diverse and divided as every other major religion on the planet. There are major divides and minor divides in its practice. There are some violent militants who are Muslims, but that's also been true for every other religion out there (look at the UK - it wasn't that long ago there was religious violence there between ostensibly Christian groups).

So yes, anti-Muslim slurs are not necessarily racist, but most often they're associated with the ethnicity and not the religion, which does make them racist.

Calling a man of middle eastern appearance "Osama" in a way that is meant to offend is absolutely racist.

Isn’t that what islamophobic should mean?

I believe some definitions I’ve read don’t quite fit but that’s probably the word you’re looking for.

 

[stephen]

No, I'm sorry, but some identities should quite rightly be chastised.

E.g. racists, homophobes, people who ask for their steak well done, agent nationaux, socialists etc.

People who order steaks well done should be taught the error of their ways and be made to realise that they're heading along the dark path towards vegetarianism or the ultimate evil - veganism.

And don't even get me started on people who talk in movie theatres - they go to special hell.

 

[mr_mister]

Dearie me.

I'm sick of people who don't live here coming to conclusions about Australia as a whole. I never criticise England on anything other than its weather. It's just gotten grating

 

[S.Kennedy]

A racist comment would inherently elude to Ali's Anglo-Pakistani ancestry, not his religiously affiliated facial hair.

 

[sledger]

People who order steaks well done should be taught the error of their ways and be made to realise that they're heading along the dark path towards vegetarianism or the ultimate evil - veganism.

And don't even get me started on people who talk in movie theatres - they go to special hell.

Yes, agreed.

 

[sledger]

A racist comment would inherently elude to Ali's Anglo-Pakistani ancestry, not his religiously affiliated facial hair.

Yes, because "Osama" is a jibe that would definitely be made against a white dude.

 

[sledger]

I'm sick of people who don't live here coming to conclusions about Australia as a whole. I never criticise England on anything other than its weather. It's just gotten grating

The problem with Australians is that they use words like "gotten". Very uncouth.

 

[hazsa19]

Since when was calling somebody Osama racist? I could understand it if somebody had called him a P**i c**t as that would be racist.

It's like if Rabada called Anderson Hitler, would that really be considered racist?

Haha. Of all the moronic comments I’ve read on Internet forums...this is up there.

 

[stephen]

Isn’t that what islamophobic should mean?

I believe some definitions I’ve read don’t quite fit but that’s probably the word you’re looking for.

It's along the right lines but it's not a great word. It implies fear and that's more about the cause rather than the effect. Anti- Islamism would probably be closer in meaning but doesn't have the same negative connotations.

I mean I don't think it's right to be intentionally offensive towards someone based on any attribute. There are some
non- homophobic people who I have met who are worse people than some homophobic people I know (for example). Being a nasty person doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be racist or homophobic or whatever but it does make you a dick.