McGrath. Marshall. Hadlee.

[Johan]

They were all cheats by your standard. Holding himself all but admitted to being a tamperer. Marshall likely picked the seam in every spell. Just get off this track

ngl, you set yourself up for this.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Marshall’s last 45 Odis: average of 40.65

This started at the end of 88. I’m guessing he lost some pace around that time.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

I mean, the next series he'd take 19 wickets @ 15 with three fifers

Bro stop stating facts and useless conjecture ....(sarcasm of course). Anyway, don't recall who it was but some one asked me how I think Marshall would've ended up had he gone on for another let's say 3 years (retiring at around 36ish) ie around 1994. In the time-frame between retirement and 1994 WI played:

RSA 1 Test at home
Aus 5 tests away
Pak 3 tests at home
SL 1 test away
Eng 5 tests at home

Firstly, he's unlikely to play all 15 tests. And good luck to him getting the new ball over Ambrose or Bishop (assuming he's available). But I can honestly see Marshall at worse playing 10 of those 15 tests and taking around 40 wkts at 20-25. I doubt he tours India in 1994 under Walsh and with (Haynes being pushed out), plus he'd want to retire on the high note of another triumph over England. All guess work of course...

 

[Johan]

Bro stop stating facts and useless conjecture ....(sarcasm of course). Anyway, don't recall who it was but some one asked me how I think Marshall would've ended up had he gone on for another let's say 3 years (retiring at around 36ish) ie around 1994. In the time-frame between retirement and 1994 WI played:

RSA 1 Test at home
Aus 5 tests away
Pak 3 tests at home
SL 1 test away
Eng 5 tests at home

Firstly, he's unlikely to play all 15 tests. And good luck to him getting the new ball over Ambrose or Bishop (assuming he's available). But I can honestly see Marshall at worse playing 10 of those 15 tests and taking around 40 wkts at 20-25. I doubt he tours India in 1994 under Walsh and with (Haynes being pushed out), plus he'd want to retire on the high note of another triumph over England. All guess work of course...

Yeah can't see him struggle with any of them, maybe Australia away but even Australia had some spicy wickets that series.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

They were all cheats by your standard. Holding himself all but admitted to being a tamperer. Marshall likely picked the seam in every spell. Just get off this track

No, my standards of a cheat is someone taking the playing ball back to the dressing room to do goodness knows what with it. Tbf I didn't even mention any player's name, dont know why you're getting so annoyed. Guilty conscience???

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yeah can't see him struggle with any of them, maybe Australia away but even Australia had some spicy wickets that series.

Yeah Australia away is about it, imo. And had he toured away to India in 1995, that may have proved bad as well. But then again, there was a much weaker NZ team that we faced right after. So these things even out.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Marshall’s last 45 Odis: average of 40.65

This started at the end of 88. I’m guessing he lost some pace around that time.

He was never a particularly great ODi bowler. But yeah he did lose pace in later years. Still had much of his guile however.

 

[Coronis]

Marshall retired early because when Viv retired, the thought process was that with Haynes being senior at the time, he'd get the captaincy (Haynes and Marshall are both Bajans). That didn't work out, Richie got it, plus there was other inter island bs happening at the time that frankly Marshall had gotten tired of:

"Marshall played his last Test in England in 1991 and his international playing career ended when he retired after being dropped from the West Indies team during the 1992 World Cup. His departure was acrimonious as he lamented the conflicts that he thought were hampering his beloved side. “Everything seems to be going down the drain,” he said, “there is no respect, no manners.” " Note that he continued playing FC cricket until I believe around 1996. No doubt he was diminished in later years though like any other fast bowler.

So he quit because he wasn’t made captain and because he was dropped for being **** in ODIs? Okay. And yeah unsurprisingly diminishing returns, even in the 91 English season. He did do well in SA domestic for a few seasons though.

Reminds me of Boycott quitting for not being captain

 

[subshakerz]

I mean, the next series he'd take 19 wickets @ 15 with three fifers

Yeah that's why it's called a dip, not a decline. Mix of bad and good series.

 

[subshakerz]

ngl, you set yourself up for this.

Not in this conversation it has nothing to do with what we are talking bout.

 

[subshakerz]

No, my standards of a cheat is someone taking the playing ball back to the dressing room to do goodness knows what with it. Tbf I didn't even mention any player's name, dont know why you're getting so annoyed. Guilty conscience???

Lol I am not annoyed my friend. I just find it a sidetrack. Honestly.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

So he quit because he wasn’t made captain and because he was dropped for being **** in ODIs? Okay.

Reminds me of Boycott quitting for not being captain

Because Haynes wasn't made captain as was the expectation. Plus typical inter island political bs. And this is started long b4 Marshall. Holding and Garner also retired at 33 and 34 respectively as well. And it wasn't because they didn't have anything left in the tank. They were just tired of the in fighting. You really have to be a west Indian and privy to the stuff from those times to really understand how toxic things were at times behind the scenes. Much hasn't changed.

 

[sayon basak]

Not in this conversation it has nothing to do with what we are talking bout.

Yeah, Marshall would have averaged a bit higher if he played for longer, 22.XX would be my guess. But don't think his WPI would decrease, in fact, it could increase due to more chances of getting wickets. Overall, don't think he would be a worse bowler in any way, as the higher average wouldn't take away from him what he did in his peak.

 

[Johan]

I think 21.XX at most.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

So he quit because he wasn’t made captain and because he was dropped for being **** in ODIs? Okay. And yeah unsurprisingly diminishing returns, even in the 91 English season. He did do well in SA domestic for a few seasons though.

Reminds me of Boycott quitting for not being captain

"After captaining the West Indies on tour to Pakistan in 1990-91 in the absence of an ill Vivian Richards (now Sir Vivian), he soon had the disappointment of being overlooked for the job in preference to Richie Richardson when Richards retired after the 1991 tour to England.

Yet, Haynes continued to give of his best but he had a major fall-out with the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB), now renamed Cricket West Indies (CWI) in 1995 after they ruled that he was ineligible to play in the home series against Australia because he had not taken part fully in the regional first-class season due to a contract with Western Province in South Africa, along with family commitments."

Quote above is from the BCA (Barbados cricket association)

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah, Marshall would have averaged a bit higher if he played for longer, 22.XX would be my guess. But don't think his WPI would decrease, in fact, it could increase due to more chances of getting wickets. Overall, don't think he would be a worse bowler in any way, as the higher average wouldn't take away from him what he did in his peak.

I said the same his WPM will be better or same but I think he gets rated so higher based on the average and SR.

 

[subshakerz]

I think 21.XX at most.

Roundabout. 21/22 average and SR of around 50. Still elite but not notably ahead of others.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Yeah, Marshall would have averaged a bit higher if he played for longer, 22.XX would be my guess. But don't think his WPI would decrease, in fact, it could increase due to more chances of getting wickets. Overall, don't think he would be a worse bowler in any way, as the higher average wouldn't take away from him what he did in his peak.

My rating for Marshall has more to do with his consistency across teams: he is sub 23 vs all teams and sub 25 home and away vs all teams (except 3 tests in NZ). Now some posters, would say well he only played against weak batting lineups bla bla bla. That's just noise afaic.

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Roundabout. 21/22 average and SR of around 50. Still elite but not notably ahead of others.

Waqar was much diminished after his various injuries but still ended up with a sr in the lower 40s, ditto Steyn. Curious to know why you think they could manage that but not Malcolm.

 

[subshakerz]

Waqar was much diminished after his various injuries but still ended up with a sr in the lower 40s, ditto Steyn. Curious to know why you think they could manage that but not Malcolm.

Marshall has a higher SR than them to start with by career end. It going up a few points isn't that much of a stretch.