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McGrath. Marshall. Hadlee.

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  • Total voters
    42
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Vice-Captain
Maco retired at 33.

The best record among fast bowlers after that age is McGrath, Hadlee, Anderson, Walsh & Ambrose.

Donald’s average slipped to 25 after turning 33.
Steyn barely played and his average dipped to 28.

I am of the opinion that Marshall was more similar in style and speed to the latter group of bowlers than the former group of bowlers who didn’t rely much on pace.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

State Vice-Captain
Coronis said:
Doesn’t Smith also have the worst ODI record among the Fab Four?
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By far. Players just aren't cut out for the limited stuff sometimes. Has no bearing whatsoever on their status in tests. Walsh, Ambrose, Steyn, Imran, Marshall etc were all much worse in ODIs than tests. Ditto batsmen like Smith, Lara, S Waugh, Border etc.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
We already had this discussion. His average would likely go up a bit, but his wpm would increase and sr remain around the same. Again, you do understand that he'd have more of a crack at the tail in general than he did b4. And him being a lone wolf from the get go, would change the dynamics of how he looked in 1992.
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Sounds like you agree with me on all points but remain bitter. Again.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Johan said:
hard to say if Marshall would've declined, many people lose their pace and just reinvent themselves to be effective.
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He already showed signs of a decline slightly once his peak finished which is why he was removed as new ball bowler.

Last 15 tests, 50 wickets@23.5. Still quite good but evidence that with less support and more years it likely would have ballooned.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
DrWolverine said:
Maco retired at 33.

The best record among fast bowlers after that age is McGrath, Hadlee, Anderson, Walsh & Ambrose.

Donald’s average slipped to 25 after turning 33.
Steyn barely played and his average dipped to 28.

I am of the opinion that Marshall was more similar in style and speed to the latter group of bowlers than the former group of bowlers who didn’t rely much on pace.
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This is why we shouldn't be as wowed with Marshalls figures as they have a degree of stat padding. Ambrose for example played until his late 30s maintaining his average (while less wickets) but he was a corridor bowler.

Yes Marshall is the best but he ain't well ahead of the rest.
 
Johan

Johan

International Coach
subshakerz said:
He already showed signs of a decline slightly once his peak finished which is why he was removed as new ball bowler.

Last 15 tests, 50 wickets@23.5. Still quite good but evidence that with less support and more years it likely would have ballooned.
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he has 40+ wickets in his last ten tests with a 21 avg tho
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

State Vice-Captain
Coronis said:
Isn’t Marshall’s whole thing that he couldn’t? That’s why he retired so young compared to other top fast bowlers.
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Marshall retired early because when Viv retired, the thought process was that with Haynes being senior at the time, he'd get the captaincy (Haynes and Marshall are both Bajans). That didn't work out, Richie got it, plus there was other inter island bs happening at the time that frankly Marshall had gotten tired of:

"Marshall played his last Test in England in 1991 and his international playing career ended when he retired after being dropped from the West Indies team during the 1992 World Cup. His departure was acrimonious as he lamented the conflicts that he thought were hampering his beloved side. “Everything seems to be going down the drain,” he said, “there is no respect, no manners.” " Note that he continued playing FC cricket until I believe around 1996. No doubt he was diminished in later years though like any other fast bowler.
 
Sliferxxxx

Sliferxxxx

State Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Sounds like you agree with me on all points but remain bitter. Again.
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Sing a different tune please. I agree his average may go up as a lone wolf. Emphasis on the may because neither you nor me truly knows. You stay stuff like they're absolutes...that's a nope imo.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
At least he wasn't a cheat like some other bowlers....
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Sorry to tell you, he likely was. As was Holding. As was Hadlee.

Sliferxxxx said:
Sing a different tune please. I agree his average may go up as a lone wolf. Emphasis on the may because neither you nor me truly knows. You stay stuff like they're absolutes...that's a nope imo.
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We agree his average likely goes up. It's a safe conclusion.
 
DrWolverine

DrWolverine

International Vice-Captain
subshakerz said:
Ambrose for example played until his late 30s maintaining his average (while less wickets) but he was a corridor bowler
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Ambrose did not rely much on speed even early on and that’s why he could play for longer period without his average getting affected.
 
subshakerz

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sliferxxxx said:
Lol lol yeah keep telling yourself that. Never heard about any of them taking the literal ball back to the dressing room....
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They were all cheats by your standard. Holding himself all but admitted to being a tamperer. Marshall likely picked the seam in every spell. Just get off this track
 
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