Lee as Good as Windies Quicks - Sir Viv

[tooextracool]

Lee over the last year or so, to me, has certainly been as good as Donald was. In fact, considering the pitches he was bowling on, and the batsmen he was bowling against, he has been as good as pretty much anyone that I've seen, including McGrath.

Whilst I agree that Lee has bowled brilliantly recently, I am not so sure I agree with the statement in bold above. Now I understand that the likes of Chanderpaul, Tendulkar, Dravid, Laxman, Sangakkara and Jayawardhene are excellent batsmen but Im sorry I dont consider the SL batsmen (in Australia), the WI batsmen, or the majority of the Indian side (Jaffer, Ganguly, Yuvraj and Dhoni away from home) to be particularly good batsmen. Need I point out that Sangakkara played one test and never looked like getting out the entire time while Chanderpaul spent the majority of the last 2 months not being dismissed. Dravid of course had more problems playing Mitchell Johnson than B. Lee. Im sorry but the quality of batting that Lee has come up against recently has been ordinary with the odd exception on the India tour.

 

[tooextracool]

If you consider the peaks (the length of the peak is variable), then Lee < Waqar < Shoaib.

Shoaib is the best bowler I have ever seen when he's on the song. He could decimate any side in to rubble within a matter of 10 overs.

Waqar at his peak>>>>>Shoaib at any point in his career. Heck even if we were to narrow the peak period down to 1 ball, we'd still find a better ball that Waqar bowled during his career than Shoaib ever did.

 

[nightprowler10]

Waqar at his peak>>>>>Shoaib at any point in his career. Heck even if we were to narrow the peak period down to 1 ball, we'd still find a better ball that Waqar bowled during his career than Shoaib ever did.

AWTA so much. Might even go as far as to say that Waqar at his peak could've walked into any all time XI.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Waqar Younis bowled that near unplayable ball to Lara back in the day. Shoaib is/was good, but I can't see him ever making Lara look so clueless.

 

[funnygirl]

Waqar at his peak>>>>>Shoaib at any point in his career. Heck even if we were to narrow the peak period down to 1 ball, we'd still find a better ball that Waqar bowled during his career than Shoaib ever did.

What would have been Waqar's statistics had he bowled by his ''choice '',getting injured conveniently .

 

[SJS]

What would have been Waqar's statistics had he bowled by his ''choice '',getting injured conveniently .

 

[DaRick]

I've nothing meaningful to add about Brett Lee's recent performances. He's been truly excellent over recent months, but ensure that you take into account dropped catches when assessing him, as well. He's had quite a few dropped off him.

 

[Jono]

I don;t think u can prove that without ''statistics '',even if they trouble the batsmen and didn;t take any wickets .

Lee has been bowling so well .He deserves a lot of praise .

But without looking at statistics can u explain how Wasim performed in 1990 and Donald in 1992?. From what u saw .

Who said I am trying to prove anything? I said from the outset this opinion I'm making is purely from what I've seen over my time watching the game!

If you want me to break down this statement further, from 1994 - 2008, the way Lee has been bowling lately, I've only seen two bowlers be clearly better over a certain period of time. Whereas Lee IMO over the last few months has been just as good as Donald, Akram, Gillespie, Pollock, Shoaib have ever been. The key is whether he can continue it.

Anything Waqar has done since then wasn't as good as Lee. His peak was before that.

Waqar Younis bowled that near unplayable ball to Lara back in the day. Shoaib is/was good, but I can't see him ever making Lara look so clueless.

I agree with you, but I still can't not take the opportunity to post this video for fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y09xlFu3V0M

 

[Slifer]

I chose 1984 because Roberts retired in 1983. From 80-83 Lee would compete with Croft,Roberts,Garner,Holding and Marshall which would obviously be difficult though on current form it's not crazy to suggest he would have gotten picked sometimes. After all even those greats had their ups and downs not to mention injuries.

From 84 onwards the West Indies never had four bowlers of that quality playing at once. They had a quite a few ordinary bowlers. The toughest cases are probably Walsh and Benjamin and while both were good bowlers I think today's Lee is clearly better especially with his batting.

Brett Lee is not clearly better than Courtney Walsh and dont forget about Ian Bishop who also played for the wi in the early to mid 90s. Cant see Lee displacing him either (overall).

 

[irfan]

I love Shoaib, probably my favourite cricketer, but when exactly has he even played 6 months straight?

I'm not talking peaks as in when they're at their peak, but a pocket of 6-12 months.

Would struggle to see him bowl 6 overs straight.

 

[funnygirl]

Who said I am trying to prove anything? I said from the outset this opinion I'm making is purely from what I've seen over my time watching the game!

If you want me to break down this statement further, from 1994 - 2008, the way Lee has been bowling lately, I've only seen two bowlers be clearly better over a certain period of time. Whereas Lee IMO over the last few months has been just as good as Donald, Akram, Gillespie, Pollock, Shoaib have ever been. The key is whether he can continue it.

Okay ,i respect ur opinion .I am little confused by ur authority to say about Donald and Wasim while u clearly didn't watch them before 1994 .So i was asking how do u know whether they were better than Lee or as good as Lee in those period ,that is in those years when u were not watching .How do u know that ? U don't prefer statistics ,then based on what u will make an opinion . Thats it. I got the point u made.

 

[Craig]

If you're talking overall career achievement, sure. But we're only talking peaks and Lee is at his as a bowler and bowling absolutely beautifully against every opponent he's faced. Even then, though, all of the bowlers had longer peaks so they're still ahead overall I reckon but for Lee to get a wrap like this from Viv, he's obviously making quite an impression.

I also get the feeling his personality is playing a part; everyone loves Lee because he's one of teh best fast bowlers in the world but is maintaining an amazingly level head and is making a lot of friends, even those he's playing against. He's always been popular but it's easy to be popular when you're having to eat humble pie on-field and you have to be nice to everyone. To be near the top of the heap and immensely popular, that's rare.

Excuse my ignorance, but why should personality play a part in how is the better bowler? I don't care if he is a **** or not, all I'm interested in how well he bowls with his on field perfomances should be used to rate him how good he is. IMO that is anyway.

If I think it is crap reasoning if Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards (just wanted to write his full name out for the hell of it) is using personality as well in his judgement.

 

[Richard]

Interesting theory, made more so by the fact that that notion hasn't been put forward anywhere.

Nah, obviously not, given that until 6 months ago it wouldn't have any reason to have been.

 

[Richard]

Waqar at his peak>>>>>Shoaib at any point in his career. Heck even if we were to narrow the peak period down to 1 ball, we'd still find a better ball that Waqar bowled during his career than Shoaib ever did.

AWTA so much. Might even go as far as to say that Waqar at his peak could've walked into any all time XI.

He could, beyond all question.

For 4 years between 1990/91 and 1994/95, Waqar was without question as dangerous as anyone who's ever played the game since Sydney Barnes.

It's unbelievable how much some people underestimate that because he was relatively ordinary for a while later, then very ordinary toward the end of his career.

Waqar isn't someone I'd want in an all-time team presuming they were going to be playing together for 10 years, but if they were playing for 4 and I could have the Waqar of those 4 years, I'd do so without any hesitation.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Nah, obviously not, given that until 6 months ago it wouldn't have any reason to have been.

So we're now dismissing notions that don't even exist? Super.

 

[Richard]

Well it doesn't really matter whether it has or not. The point, in essence, is that Lee and Patterson's careers respectively have-been-to-date and were pretty poor. But for a very brief time, they were both extremely dangerous.

It seemed someone was trying to draw a comparison between Patterson's entire career and Lee's last 6 months, and if so that was a notion that was put forward, and should be dismissed, for obvious reasons.

 

[Top_Cat]

Excuse my ignorance, but why should personality play a part in how is the better bowler? I don't care if he is a **** or not, all I'm interested in how well he bowls with his on field perfomances should be used to rate him how good he is. IMO that is anyway.

If I think it is crap reasoning if Sir Isaac Vivian Alexander Richards (just wanted to write his full name out for the hell of it) is using personality as well in his judgement.

Oh yeah but in Lee's case, he's managing to pull off being a top-shelf Test bowler and being popular. And if you're popular, you're more likely to have dudes coming out and saying how good you are. Just the way psychology works.

Take away the personality, and Lee is still a top Test bowler right now. Add the personality and you have a promoter's dream.

 

[silentstriker]

Oh yeah but in Lee's case, he's managing to pull off being a top-shelf Test bowler and being popular. And if you're popular, you're more likely to have dudes coming out and saying how good you are. Just the way psychology works.

Take away the personality, and Lee is still a top Test bowler right now. Add the personality and you have a promoter's dream.

Shatters the stereotype of fast bowlers having to be assholes to do a great job. He is one of my favorite cricketers by far, probably the most favorite.

 

[Craig]

Any non-Indian cricketer who is able to make a career (not matter how part-time) out of Bollywood in both acting and singing (no matter how dire or not) is fine by me.

 

[SJS]

Shatters the stereotype of fast bowlers having to be assholes to do a great job. He is one of my favorite cricketers by far, probably the most favorite.

Completely agree with that sentiment. I just love that guy. Wish there were more like him in the game.