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Kapil Dev, the bowler
- Thread starter ret
- Start date
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Shouldn't have used the term 'too long' regarding Kapil. There as nothing too long about his stay. He was a great servant of Indian cricket.
Agree with the rest of your post btw. I am just simply not a fan of people on CW saying that so and so went on too long because his stats fell a bit, when he was still easily in the best XI of his nation, and still enjoyed the game, and still wanted to represent the country he loves.
Cricket is more than numbers.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Welllllllll... no it's not TBH. 
But the summing-up of a player's career should use more than one single number (ie, a player's career average).
If you look carefully (ie - use StatsGuru) you can see how good Kapil was for a time, and how even when he was no longer at his best was still more than useful, regardless of the calibre of the rest of seam-bowling in his country.
HOWEVER, I'm never sorry to see a player leave even if they're still in their team's best XI, if they wish to avoid risking getting any worse than the level they want to perform at. Each player is different in his wishes. Some prefer to wring every last drop from their play and don't care if they end-up with a few games at the end with nothing left to give.
I agree, incidentally, that Kapil didn't go on "too long" as such. Just too long for the bowler at the end of his career to represent the bowler he had been earlier. But this does not matter as long as there are those willing to recall the bowler of earlier.
But the summing-up of a player's career should use more than one single number (ie, a player's career average).If you look carefully (ie - use StatsGuru) you can see how good Kapil was for a time, and how even when he was no longer at his best was still more than useful, regardless of the calibre of the rest of seam-bowling in his country.
HOWEVER, I'm never sorry to see a player leave even if they're still in their team's best XI, if they wish to avoid risking getting any worse than the level they want to perform at. Each player is different in his wishes. Some prefer to wring every last drop from their play and don't care if they end-up with a few games at the end with nothing left to give.
I agree, incidentally, that Kapil didn't go on "too long" as such. Just too long for the bowler at the end of his career to represent the bowler he had been earlier. But this does not matter as long as there are those willing to recall the bowler of earlier.
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Sanz ! What happened to you ?
Jono
Virat Kohli (c)
Kapil looking at himself in the mirror and being happy with his career is more important in the end than whatever stats one wants to use.Welllllllll... no it's not TBH.
Agreed. If a player chooses to leave even when he's good enough, because he isn't playing at a level he expects of himself and hence doesn't want to continue, of course his decision must be respected.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Of course it is. But bowling averages aren't the only numbers invovled in cricket.
Granted, of course, that "cricket is more than numbers" is rather different from the "numbers are irrelevant to cricket" stuff some come-out with.
ret
International Debutant
I remember watching Kapil's last ODI against WI in India .... It's was clear that he was dragging on with his career and in that game for first time i heard the crowd shout 'Kapil, hai hai' [Boo], the kind of booing that was normally associated with Ravi Shastri
and the next thing we hear is that Kapil retires .... he was really smart to retire at the sign of the first 'booing'. i always thought that he should have retired in 1992 after that magnificent series in Australia, where he also completed 400 wkts
and the next thing we hear is that Kapil retires .... he was really smart to retire at the sign of the first 'booing'. i always thought that he should have retired in 1992 after that magnificent series in Australia, where he also completed 400 wkts
Dissector
International Debutant
He obviously wanted Richard Hadlee's record. The interesting thing is that in each of his last 4 years he averaged below 30; he was actually lowering his career average at this point though he wasn't getting too many wickets. And he still averaged 30 with the bat so he was clearly contributing to the team. Even purely as a bowler in his final years he was probably good enough to play for most sides today.
ret
International Debutant
for me, a record is a record when you do it in roughly the same number of games .... considering that Kapil played many of his games in the subcontinent and given his class, he should have done that in 110 tests and not 131. thats 20 tests too many
even though I don't appreciate Azharudin for his alleged involvement in match-fixing, one thing that I liked abt him was his modesty. When he took over Desmond Haynes as the highest runs scorer in ODI, iirc, at Sharjah, the presenter asked him that how he feels on getting the record and he said something like he would have felt great if he had got those runs in abt the same number of games as Haynes. Since he has played so many ODIs, he bound to get those runs and thats not a record
even though I don't appreciate Azharudin for his alleged involvement in match-fixing, one thing that I liked abt him was his modesty. When he took over Desmond Haynes as the highest runs scorer in ODI, iirc, at Sharjah, the presenter asked him that how he feels on getting the record and he said something like he would have felt great if he had got those runs in abt the same number of games as Haynes. Since he has played so many ODIs, he bound to get those runs and thats not a record
Dissector
International Debutant
A few statistics about his peak bowling period from September 1979 to the end of 1983. He played in 49 tests and took 207 wickets at 26 with 17 5-wicket hauls. 11 of those tests were against the West Indies in 1983 and he averaged an amazing 21 with the ball against them.
There are very,very few bowlers in the history of the game who could have done what he did in those years in the kind of circumstances he had to bowl in.
There are very,very few bowlers in the history of the game who could have done what he did in those years in the kind of circumstances he had to bowl in.
That's what I thought too . He was amazing to watch on those flat tracks . I was so surprized to see him swinging the ball at a speed atleast 20-30 km less than Wasim Akram and Imran Khan . His ability to hit sixes was amazing too. A far better batsman than all the other tailender batsmen of that time .
ret
International Debutant
yes, and it is sad that ppl rate him as a 'good bowler' and not an 'out-standing' bowler as he was
i remember him bowling a magic ball to Mahanama in an ODI where the ball swung in the air and then moved away after pitching beating Mahanama hands down. it was like one of the Warne balls, where the ball dips in and then moves away
it's only because he dragged his career that many put him in the good bowler category than in the out-standing one .... as far as ODIs go, he would be my first pick amongst the 4 great all-rounders
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
He wanted the record, He was bowling well enough, He was batting well enough.There was no one better to replace him.
Who cares what the Statsguru says. He is arguably India's finest Cricketer ever and certainly its biggest work horse. We used him like an OX.
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One thing to be honest ! He was the fittest in sub-continent regardless he being the 4th best bowler bowling along with Wasim , Imran and a young Srinath .
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
So Waqar was the 5th best then ?
ret
International Debutant
were Imran and Botham tailenders?
if Imran bowled 20-30 kmph faster than Kapil then Imran must be bowling at 150-160 kmph *wondering*
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Kapil Dev is a legend. A frontrunner among Indian pacers, he defied the norm that India doesn't produce fast bowlers, becoming one of their greatest bowlers and surely their greatest player ever. He's been their best bowler at that time on all tracks, flat or rough, fast or slow. More importantly, for a phase, he carried his team forward- with ball and bat.
While many critics keep reminding fans of Kapil's form in the 1990's, where he 'played too long', there were next to no options at the time. There may have been a young Srinath, but such was the planning and strategy, that he was useless in India- with Kapil and Prabhakar, both all-rounders, playing alongside three spinners. Moreover, he was the last genuine all-rounder (before Prabhakar) to play, so he had it going ahead of the specialist pacers. He wasn't that good, but he was still valuable for his team.
While many critics keep reminding fans of Kapil's form in the 1990's, where he 'played too long', there were next to no options at the time. There may have been a young Srinath, but such was the planning and strategy, that he was useless in India- with Kapil and Prabhakar, both all-rounders, playing alongside three spinners. Moreover, he was the last genuine all-rounder (before Prabhakar) to play, so he had it going ahead of the specialist pacers. He wasn't that good, but he was still valuable for his team.
Richard
Cricket Web Staff Member
Yeah, absolutely. People look at the fact he was bowling at, my guess from looking at him, probably little more than 70mph and say he looked a bit of a joke. But still he was taking wickets at an acceptable average.
aussie
Hall of Fame Member
Struggle to see how his peak could have surpassed the careers of Lindwall, Davidson at least. I never saw the man so i wouldn't stand by this point with any certainty but the likes of Garth McKenize, McDermott & modern day Lee are bowlers who best years i feel were better than Dev or comparable.
Cricket_God
U19 Cricketer
lee-best years in test are you nuts,if any of these bowlers would have toiled even for 1 season in dead sub continent tracks,they would be slow medium pacers when they ended,the man never got injured inspite playing,show some respect man