Joe Root vs Virat Kohli vs Kane Williamson in Tests

[Fuller Pilch]

Yeah "don't include x number of years where player wasn't as good" is not really a valid argument

Since 2014 (7.5 years ago) is a pretty valid argument. That's a career for many players.

 

[OverratedSanity]

"It's unfair to hold williamson's away average against him because the sample is so small. You should make the sample smaller to understand why he's actually good". Lmao. Some amazing hoops people are jumping through here.

Sample size or not his overall away record is mediocre as hell and much worse than roots. Kohli's also kinda sucks but atleast his away record is propped up by dominating Australia and south Africa, not west indies and Bangladesh.

 

[Athlai]

I think it's fair to say Williamson doesn't have a large sample size of away games in general but it's mad to think he'd be a home track bully. I'd back him in foreign conditions more often than not. His ODI career he averages significantly less at home than at neutral venues, and less at home than away venues in general. Opening/#3 in NZ is hard and he plays spin well.

It really isn't a gotcha argument. More of a statistical quirk on his unusual career

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Im not saying he's a home track bully or can't play overseas today. He is probably one of the best players away from home today, but the fact is that he has been significantly worse than Root in the opportunities he has been given. It doesn't matter if you'd back him or not. In the end of the day he has to perform as well as Root to be considered better than him. Batting #4 in English Conditions when you're the only batsmen who averges over 35 is a lot harder than batting #3 in NZ when you have 3-4 batsmen around you averaging over 40.

 

[Bahnz]

No ones saying he's a home track bully or can't play overseas today. He is probably one of the best players away from home today, but the fact is that he has been significantly worse than Root in the opportunities he has been given. It doesn't matter if you'd back him or not. In the end of the day he has to perform as well as Root to be considered better than him. Batting #4 in English Conditions when you're the only batsmen who averges over 35 is a lot harder than batting #3 in NZ when you have 3-4 batsmen around you averaging over 40.

I mean...for most of their respective careers Joe Root had a significantly stronger supporting act than KW did. It's only really been in the last 3 years or so that England's test match batting has fallen off a cliff. For all the faults of England's current opening combinations, Root's never had to play with anyone as hopelessly out of their depth as Hamish Rutherford or James Franklin.

 

[TheJediBrah]

No ones saying he's a home track bully

Kane is way too much of a home track bully.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I mean...for most of their respective careers Joe Root had a significantly stronger supporting act than KW did. It's only really been in the last 3 years or so that England's test match batting has fallen off a cliff. For all the faults of England's current opening combinations, Root's never had to play with anyone as hopelessly out of their depth as Hamish Rutherford or James Franklin.

I'd disagree with Englands batting declining only since 2018. Its basically been declining since Root debuted or since that 2013/2014 ashes. Since the beginning of Roots career he basically has had only Cook, who himself declined after 2015. Other than its just been a bunch of people averaging mid to low 30s. Since the beginning of Roots career, Williamson has had Taylor/Latham/Mccullum/Nicholls/Watling who have all been as good or better than cook during that time period(except watling but he was still better than most English batsmen). So no its not true that for most of their careers, Root has had significantly stronger support. Its the opposite.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Lol my bad. Changed it.

 

[Flem274*]

"It's unfair to hold williamson's away average against him because the sample is so small. You should make the sample smaller to understand why he's actually good". Lmao. Some amazing hoops people are jumping through here.

Sample size or not his overall away record is mediocre as hell and much worse than roots. Kohli's also kinda sucks but atleast his away record is propped up by dominating Australia and south Africa, not west indies and Bangladesh.

Kanes away record is propped up by touring australia and pakistan (uae)

 

[Flem274*]

I noticed roots insane away average around his sri lanka/india run and thought he'd jump up to near smith level if he could get past 80 again.

Of course we all know who has been dead 4th since meeting kyle jamieson and tim southee in january 2020

 

[Gob]

If you could change his first name, would you rather go with Kanye or Keanu?

 

[Howsie]

Bringing up Williamson’s away record in South Africa is so ****ing stupid. Actually look at it in detail….

 

[honestbharani]

How the **** were Root n Kohli "protected" in their formative years?

 

[Athlai]

Formative Years in the Spotlight
Kane Williamson debuted at 20
By age 23 he had played 34 of his total 85 Matches 40% of his Test record is aged 20-23
Virat Kohli debut 22
By age 23 he had played 10 of his total 96 Matches 10% of his Test record is aged 22-23
Joe Root debuted at 21 (in Test 4 of a series)
By age 23 he had played 22 of his total 109 Matches 20% of his Test record is aged 21-23

I earnestly don't think you guys recognise how much of Kane's overall record is such a tiny portion of his early career due to a quirk in scheduling that isn't seen in Eng/Ind/Aus

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Averages for that age range?

 

[Bahnz]

31 for KW, 41 for Kohli and 50 for Root who hit the ground running, benefitting I think from coming into an extremely experienced and well-established batting lineup.

 

[Athlai]

Averages while waiting for the pony race

Age 14-23 ------ Min 15 innings (ranked via average)
#1 Bradman 2695 @ 112.29
#18 Root 1732 @ 50.94
#20 Tendulkar 3617 @ 50.23
#22 Lara 812 @ 47.76
#41 Kohli 703 @ 41.35
#44 Williamson 2377 @ 40.28

Smith only played 14 innings in this timeframe
420 @ 32.30

Age 24 and up? (min 3000 runs)
#1 Bradman 4301 @ 93.50
#2 Smith 7120 @ 65.32
#3 Williamson 4853 @ 64.70
#15 Tendulkar 12304 @ 54.92
#20 Lara 11141 @ 53.30
#24 Kohli 7062 @ 52.31
#34 Root 7546 @ 49.97

 

[Immenso]

Re: The Root is hampered by his hopeless colleagues argument.

I remember when Williamson used to bat at 3 for the first 5 years of his test career behind sub-30 averaging openers:
Tim McIntosh
Martin Guptill
Hamish Rutherford
Peter Fulton
Daniel Flynn
Rob Nicol

 

[TheJediBrah]

For all the massive efforts of stat manipulation the kiwi brahs have gone to to convince us, I really think we have to give them credit. It's been impressive and I'm now on the bandwagon. Kane is best

Re: The Root is hampered by his hopeless colleagues argument.

Yeah that's a **** argument. I think it can even help your stats sometimes.

 

[honestbharani]

Formative Years in the Spotlight
Kane Williamson debuted at 20
By age 23 he had played 34 of his total 85 Matches 40% of his Test record is aged 20-23
Virat Kohli debut 22
By age 23 he had played 10 of his total 96 Matches 10% of his Test record is aged 22-23
Joe Root debuted at 21 (in Test 4 of a series)
By age 23 he had played 22 of his total 109 Matches 20% of his Test record is aged 21-23

I earnestly don't think you guys recognise how much of Kane's overall record is such a tiny portion of his early career due to a quirk in scheduling that isn't seen in Eng/Ind/Aus

Fair enough