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Jasprit Bumrah vs Imran Khan

Bumrah vs Imran

  • Total voters
    22
R

Randomfan

U19 Cricketer
Imran home record is suspect for me, so let's see away first.

Imran has 180 odd wickets at avg of 26-27 when playing away against non-minnows. We have Garner/Hadlee/Marshall/Holding/Roberts etc averaging 20-23 range so it's not like pacers were not able to do well away in that era.


1752696675186.png


Bumrah already has 170 away wickets at avg of 19-20 and counting vs IK 180 odd wickets at avg 26-27.

IK had some fantactic away series during his peak, but in Bumrah's case his entire career has been a peak. We are looking at a different class of bowler when you consider outputs in absolute terms and relative to peers.

It's not even in the same ball park.


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Now let's see home for both.

1752697333119.png

There is nothing to suggest that Bumrah is inferior to IK in Asian conditions, but he has only 47 wickets at home so far. I will give advantage to IK here for volume.



Ik had an almost unimaginable stretch at home to pick 100 wickets.

1752697994230.png


I firmly believe that Bumrah will cause riots if you give him bottle caps with 20 tests at home. Anyway, let's see what he ends up getting at home. If he gets to near 100 test wickets at home at avg of around 20 then career comparison between Bumrah and IK becomes one sided. So all some one can wait is to Bumrah to pick 50 home wickets at avg of 23-24. I don't think I need to wait for that given how far ahead Bumrah is in away conditions. I think some fans will wait, but I rate quality over longevity as long as large enough sample size exists to judge and 47 test wickets in Asia is way more than most ATG pacers have in Asia.


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Looking at everything, right now, I will take Bumrah over IK. More skilled, better record and he will outbowl IK on most surfaces including Asia. I suspect once Bumrah crosses 250-260 wickets, most fans won't be having this debate.
 
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Johan

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Randomfan said:
Imran home record is suspect for me, so let's see away first.

Imran has 180 odd wickets at avg of 26-27 when playing away against non-minnows. We have Garner/Hadlee/Marshall/Holding/Roberts etc averaging 20-23 range so it's not like pacers were not able to do well away in that era.


View attachment 48679


Bumrah already has 170 away wickets at avg of 19-20 and counting vs IK 180 odd wickets at avg 26-27.

IK had some fantactic away series during his peak, but in Bumrah's case his entire career has been a peak. We are looking at a different class of bowler when you consider outputs in absolute terms and relative to peers.

It's not even in the same ball park.


----------------

Now let's see home for both.

View attachment 48680

There is nothing to suggest that Bumrah is inferior to IK in Asian conditions, but he has only 47 wickets at home so far. I will give advantage to IK here for volume.



Ik had an almost unimaginable stretch at home to pick 100 wickets.

View attachment 48682


I firmly believe that Bumrah will cause riots if you give him bottle caps with 20 tests at home. Anyway, let's see what he ends up getting at home. If he gets to near 100 test wickets at home at avg of around 20 then career comparison between Bumrah and IK becomes one sided. So all some one can wait is to Bumrah to pick 50 home wickets at avg of 23-24. I don't think I need to wait for that given how far ahead Bumrah is in away conditions. I think some fans will wait, but I rate quality over longevity as long as large enough sample size exists to judge and 47 test wickets in Asia is way more than most ATG pacers have in Asia.


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Looking at everything, right now, I will take Bumrah over IK. More skilled, better record and he will outbowl IK on most surfaces including Asia. I suspect once Bumrah crosses 250-260 wickets, most fans won't be having this debate.
Click to expand...
a few points worth mentioning, Imran wasn't static in quality, from 1977 to 1988 he was averaging 23.13 away from home, not 26-27 and other than one series in India where he played as a batsman, he was doing genuinely well everywhere, his WPI in Australia was nearly 3, more than 3 WPI in England, New Zealand and West Indies. If you allow WSC, the average becomes 22.85.

don't get me wrong, even after adjustments I think Bumrah would average like a point and a half lower than Imran, bit due to Imran's amazing ability to handle high workload bar the Shin Injury, I think they come close enough for Imran to win on account of his home record just being better.

Generally, I also think Bumrah won't play 11 years tbh, that's why I'm comfortable picking the timeframe.
 
R

Randomfan

U19 Cricketer
Johan said:
a few points worth mentioning, Imran wasn't static in quality, from 1977 to 1988 he was averaging 23.13 away from home,
Click to expand...
Here is the 11 years of period you are citing - Away against non-minnows.

1752703792124.png


I am aware of him having different phases but even in this 11 years he wasn't in the same ball park as Bumrah when playing away in absolute terms or relative to peer group. Home is the one place he has advanatge in my opinion and that too not in quality but in volume. I am not sure 11 years or 9 years will make much difference if number of tests are same in those 9 or 11 years for different players.

Anyway, IK vs Bumrah is more closer than some other comparison we saw recently with Bumrah. Over all, for me Bumrah is still in IK/Garner/Lillee... bracket. Bit here and there. If he plays more with similar output he simply makes a stronger claim to be ahead of this pack and joins Steyn/Ambrose.

When Bumrah had 30-35 tests, I was treating it as peak and comparing with peak of others. Now his career is 47 tests long with similar intensity. Once it crosses 60 tests, I think given how much he has played against top sides of his era, I think longevity becomes a total non-issue to me. A bowler can grab 50 extra test wickets against bottom sides or may not grab, it's not going to make any difference in my mind. For many, it may still make difference.

275 wickets at similar output, I will have him clear of this group without hesitation. 300+ wickets with similar output, I will have him as the top 3-4 pacers. Quality wise, he seems to be close to Marshall to me.
 
R

Randomfan

U19 Cricketer
kyear2 said:
Bumrah better and easily so.

Imran still greater,
Click to expand...
Better career for IK for sure.

I don't see how it's a debate for a better bowler. It would have been a debate with Bumrah with only 150 wickets, but now he has pretty much topping the charts for number of wickets by Asian bowlers outside Asia with quality 1-2 tiers ahead of other Asian greats. At home , he has around 50 wickets at avg of 17.

I am not sure, with all these polls all of us are answering the better bowler vs better career question. I was answering the better bowler in all threads. yes, certain threshold is required but Bumrah has 11/12 tests each in Aus, Eng, Ind and 8 tests in SA. Only place, is NZ among top sides where he has not played 8-10 tests.

He is not going to play against Pak and I don't need to see him playing more agaisnt WI/SL/BD to learn anything new. Yes, 50 wickets at avg of 10-12 against bottom teams will make his stats look better but it does not change anything as far as quality goes. Hypothetically if he takes extra 50 wickets from now against bottom teams and averages 17-18 in career, I am not going to start rating to far ahead of Marshall. Marshall did not pick near 50 wickets against SL who was a certified minnows in his career. In fact, he did not even play any games. In contrast, IK has 46 tests wickets against SL. So all wickets are not same.


Anyway, I am curious what posters are supposed to answer with these comparisons. I assumed that it's for better bowler as long as large enough sample size exist to judge fairly. In Bumrah's case it does exist and it's actually extreme situation given he has mostly played against top sides away.
 
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h_hurricane

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Bumrah losing polls like this because of sample size. All these comparisons should have waited until a year or two more and he will be winning many.
 
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