James Anderson vs Glenn McGrath - Similarities and differences

[Black_Warrior]

Tbf, many players I consider atgs have mediocre records against the best teams (Waqar, Pollock, Miandad, Dravid, Inzi), so I don't hold it against Anderson much if at all.

But that's why they're a tier below the ATGs of their times though

Miandad is below Gavaskar and Viv
Pollock and Waqar are below Wasim and McGrath
Inzy is below Sachin and Lara

 

[sledger]

Inzy probably the GOAT of run outs tbf. Literally the ATG.

 

[trundler]

Border only averages about 39.5 against West Indies too though he played some ATG knocks against them.

 

[Bolo]

But that's why they're a tier below the ATGs of their times though

Miandad is below Gavaskar and Viv
Pollock and Waqar are below Wasim and McGrath
Inzy is below Sachin and Lara

What measure of performance could you point to that puts Waqar and Pollock a tier behind Wasim?

 

[TheJediBrah]

And the last few posts just highlights the problem with the idiotic terminology of ATVG and so on.

James Anderson, Anil Kumble, Courtney Walsh are all great bowlers. They are not VG or ATVG. They are Greats of the game plain and simple.
They're a tier below the All Time Greats like McGrath, Wasim and Warne, but the term 'Great' should still be used to describe them.

This is a weird post. You call out the "idiotic" terminology of "ATVG", then go on to basically repeat exactly what everyone means by ATVG in your own words

 

[Stefan9]

Anderson is an english great but in world terms he is only very good.

The stats don't lie.

 

[Slifer]

Border only averages about 39.5 against West Indies too though he played some ATG knocks

I dont think I need to tell anyone that averaging 39.5 vs the most hostile bowling attack of all time especially during the 70-90s is one hell of an accomplishment.

 

[Slifer]

And the last few posts just highlights the problem with the idiotic terminology of ATVG and so on.

James Anderson, Anil Kumble, Courtney Walsh are all great bowlers. They are not VG or ATVG. They are Greats of the game plain and simple.
They're a tier below the All Time Greats like McGrath, Wasim and Warne, but the term 'Great' should still be used to describe them.

James Anderson is not on the same level as a courtney Walsh. Nope

 

[Black_Warrior]

This is a weird post. You call out the "idiotic" terminology of "ATVG", then go on to basically repeat exactly what everyone means by ATVG in your own words

The term alone is idiotic, not the tiers and performances defined in that tier.

 

[ImpatientLime]

slifer absolutely seething that jimmy anderson has more wickets than all his west indian heroes

great viewing

 

[sledger]

slifer absolutely seething that jimmy anderson has more wickets than all his west indian heroes

great viewing

Haha yes, so salty.

 

[marc71178]

James Anderson is not on the same level as a courtney Walsh. Nope

People were being kind to Courtney by grouping them together, didn’t think you’d be the one to take umbrage though.

 

[Slifer]

slifer absolutely seething that jimmy anderson has more wickets than all his west indian heroes

great viewing

Ha ha . Pretty much...but not really. I believe Cook has more runs than all our great batsmen as well so good on Cook and Anderson for their records and for being consistent. The only person who really had me seething was Alec Stewart and that stupid statement he made a while ago about Anderson being the "best fast bowler ever produced. "

 

[subshakerz]

Here is how I rank players:

All-time greats: Players who you would shortlist for an all-time XI, as in they merit consideration for being discussed in this elite group. They are not only recognized as the best of their time, but based on records and peer approval, are measured against the best of any era. It doesnt mean that there are only eleven all-time greats, but there are several more who could be in the discussion. So Dale Steyn or Greg Chappell may not be in an all-time XI, but certainly deserve to be considered, and hence are all-time greats.

Greats/National Greats: Players with a sustained level of world class performance over a career and are among the best of their times, but lack the same rating as all-time greats based on some shortcoming or not quite as ranked among their peers. They are recognized among the best their country has produced. Players like Miandad, Walsh, etc.

World Class: Rated as among the best in the world in their playing days but did not play long enough over a stretch of a career to be given great status. Guys like Shane Bond, Ian Bishop, etc.

Frontline: One of your more established batsmen or bowlers who was a fixture in the side and maintained consistent performances while never rising to be rated among the best of their time. Guys like Mark Waugh, Craig McDermott, Morne Morkel, etc.

Based on the above, McGrath clearly is an all-time great, but Anderson is more of a national great for me. I would consider him for an all-time England XI perhaps.

 

[subshakerz]

What measure of performance could you point to that puts Waqar and Pollock a tier behind Wasim?

Two factors: Wasim was almost universally considered better than those two by his peers, and against the best team of his era, Australia, did fairly better.

 

[TheJediBrah]

How good would Wasim have been if he didn't have a systematically tampered-with ball half the time he was bowling though?

 

[jimmy101]

How good would Wasim have been if he didn't have a systematically tampered-with ball half the time he was bowling though?

Probably somewhere between Paul Wilson & Brad Williams level.

 

[Slifer]

Here is how I rank players:

All-time greats: Players who you would shortlist for an all-time XI, as in they merit consideration for being discussed in this elite group. They are not only recognized as the best of their time, but based on records and peer approval, are measured against the best of any era. It doesnt mean that there are only eleven all-time greats, but there are several more who could be in the discussion. So Dale Steyn or Greg Chappell may not be in an all-time XI, but certainly deserve to be considered, and hence are all-time greats.

Greats/National Greats: Players with a sustained level of world class performance over a career and are among the best of their times, but lack the same rating as all-time greats based on some shortcoming or not quite as ranked among their peers. They are recognized among the best their country has produced. Players like Miandad, Walsh, etc.

World Class: Rated as among the best in the world in their playing days but did not play long enough over a stretch of a career to be given great status. Guys like Shane Bond, Ian Bishop, etc.

Frontline: One of your more established batsmen or bowlers who was a fixture in the side and maintained consistent performances while never rising to be rated among the best of their time. Guys like Mark Waugh, Craig McDermott, Morne Morkel, etc.

Based on the above, McGrath clearly is an all-time great, but Anderson is more of a national great for me. I would consider him for an all-time England XI perhaps.

I was thinking of posting something similar but I see u hit the nail on the head. My ranking is all time great using a similar criteria to yours and then great using your second criteria. There after it's very good and so on. FWIW my list of ATG from each country looks like this:

Wi
Lara
Viv
Headley
Sobers
Ambrose
Marshall

Rsa
Donald
Steyn
Pollock

Oz
Bradman
Chappel
Ponting
Miller
Lillee
McGrath
Warne
Grimmet
Oreilly
Gilchrist

Nz
Hadlee

Pak
Wasim
Imran

Eng
Hutton
Hobbs
Sutcliffe
Hammond
Knott
Trueman
Barnes
Laker

Ind
Gavaskar
Sachin

SL
Murali

Players I go back and forth on include the likes of : Waugh, Border, Davidson, Lindwall, Barrington, Kallis, Holding, Garner, Waqar, Sangakarra, etc

Current players who imo are well on their way for greatness include: Smith (obviously), Kohli, Root, Philander, Rabada, Williamson, Hazlewood

 

[ImpatientLime]

root lol

 

[jimmy101]

Nice list Slifer. Davidson, Kallis, Holding, Waqar & Sanga all belong in the ATG category tho.

A few more ATGs to be considered... B Richards, G Pollock, Grace, Ranji, Botham, Rhodes, Trumper, Kapil.