Is bowling really fast (90mph and over) natural or a learned skill?

[Top_Cat]

Both guys, quick enough to be sure, were bowling nowhere near the pace they ended up bowling at. Even taking into account Lee had already been seriously injured and recovered with some modifications to his actions at this point.

Combine their natural talent to bowl 140Km/h with strength training, natural body maturity and optimisation of their actions. Compare and contrast with when they really were bowling at their peak pace.

 

[Top_Cat]

Quicker (in Lee's case, much quicker) but just in general stronger movements and easier on the body.

EDIT: Phwoar, how good the cut by Waugh at 7:55 in the Donald vid? Placement!

 

[kiwiviktor81]

The Stands : The physics of fast: Why McGrath was faster than you think | ESPN Cricinfo - Why Glen McGrath was faster than the speed gun, and further more:

This is a really good article. I compare it to golf: a top golfer won't swing a driver any faster than a pitching wedge, but because the club is longer the clubhead is faster and the ball travels quicker.

Tall bowlers will naturally swing the ball through a greater arc before release because their arms are longer. All other things being equal, a 6'6" guy like McGrath will be quicker than a shorter player with a similar arm speed.

 

[Daemon]

EDIT: One video per post? You gotta be kidding me.

There's a lot of natural ability, sure, but there's a lot of honing too. Have a look at the respective actions of Alan Donald and Brett Lee prior to playing Test cricket.

woah, never knew TPC was flaying bowlers since 1987

 

[G.I.Joe]

Scour the athletics world for javellin throwers and the tennis world for players with a big serve who aren't going to go pro and get them bowling a cricket ball.

 

[King Pietersen]

It was a matter of time!

 

[Top_Cat]

As for Glen McGrath:

The Stands : The physics of fast: Why McGrath was faster than you think | ESPN Cricinfo - Why Glen McGrath was faster than the speed gun, and further more:

I'm not going to pretend to know the exact answers but this is blather.

 

[CaptainGrumpy]

I'm not going to pretend to know the exact answers but this is blather.

Triangles.

 

[weldone]

whilst bowling fast helps a bowler, he has to know what to do with that pace and/control it..prime example Shoaib Akhtar- just interested in bowling as fast as he could but bowled tosh most of the time..

Nah, Shaun Tait is a better example.

Still remember the Perth test that India won in 2008. The Australian journalists were bigging him up as if he bowls faster than the wind, and he can easily have the incompetent flat-track bully Indian batsmen for breakfast, lunch and dinner if he just moves a muscle. What a disaster he turned out to be once the test started! Sprayed all around the wicket; the uppercuts from Tendulkar just gloriously destroyed the overhyped ****.

And it repeated in the 2011 World Cup quarter-final IIRC.

 

[OverratedSanity]

whilst bowling fast helps a bowler, he has to know what to do with that pace and/control it..prime example Shoaib Akhtar- just interested in bowling as fast as he could but bowled tosh most of the time..

Woah I disagree with that. Shoaib was probably the fastest ever, but pace wasn't his only weapon. Was amazing with reverse. Shoaib doesn't get enough credit imo... was petty awesome.

 

[Top_Cat]

Nah, Shaun Tait is a better example.

Still remember the Perth test that India won in 2008. The Australian journalists were bigging him up as if he bowls faster than the wind, and he can easily have the incompetent flat-track bully Indian batsmen for breakfast, lunch and dinner if he just moves a muscle. What a disaster he turned out to be once the test started! Sprayed all around the wicket; the uppercuts from Tendulkar just gloriously destroyed the overhyped ****.

The hype was incredibly dumb but it never came from Tait. He was also injured and shouldn't have played. Calling him an overhyped **** is ridiculously harsh considering Tait himself said nothing in the lead-up other than the usual 'hope I get a game' platitudes.

 

[OverratedSanity]

The hype was incredibly dumb but it never came from Tait. He was also injured and shouldn't have played. Calling him an overhyped **** is ridiculously harsh considering Tait himself said nothing in the lead-up other than the usual 'hope I get a game' platitudes.

Well, obviously. By that logic no one can be called overhyped. No one hypes themselves.

 

[Cric123]

Slinging technique's typically have a fast velocity potential: Thommo, Mitch Johnson. Former javelin throwers bowlers are typically pacey with their "naturally discovered" actions: Thommo and De Lange.

The strong lean but wiry figures seem to be more successful fast bowlers (still have injuries - eg Lillee) and bowl very fast than burly people like Mitch McClenaghan, who often, not always, struggle with injuries. This will influence the changes to their technique over time. Fred Trueman was fast and burly. But how many can you think of who were burly and genuinely fast?

I believe that the natural bowling action will form a blue print of velocity potential that can be refined with technique. The same person bowling some actions will be faster than others, so technique is relevant. Some experts say that express pace cannot be made. Which I take to mean that the action and the person delivering the action has a maximum pace potential. Some people can tweak their actions or exert more effort for more pace. Some people cannot.

I find Damien Fleming's comments about fast bowling and various techniques and ball release absolutely fascinating.

Spot on. I've also noticed it is guys who are strong yet quite wiry that tend to bowl the fastest, rather than guys who are out and out muscular. You want a strong physique but you don't want to become too bulky as the muscles will probably stiffen up the body. But there are guys like Brett Schultz who bowled very fast with a similar build to McClenaghan. I have noticed Wood looks quite wiry but has powerfully developed shoulders, which he relies on to bowl fast off a very short run up.

Then again, the big burly guys do hit the pitch very hard which can allow them to extract bounce off the most placid of pitches.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Thread lacks Atul Sharma, easily the fastest ever. All natural. True story.

 

[weldone]

Well, obviously. By that logic no one can be called overhyped. No one hypes themselves.

Yes exactly

..except Cook and Kohli though

 

[Top_Cat]

And Warne.
And McGrath.
And Hayden.
And Hodge.

Don't make me post a Watson article too (please). And, y'know, KP.

 

[weldone]

And Warne.
And McGrath.
And Hayden.
And Hodge.

Don't make me post a Watson article too (please).

Ok but do you agree that players can be overyped without opening mouths themselves?

 

[Top_Cat]

Yeah but what you said read like you were blaming him. If not, fair play and I'm sorry.

If anything, Tait's been one of the few professional sportsmen to be almost totally open about his failures whilst still playing the game and what his decision to quit Tests cost him.

 

[weldone]

I was blaming him for being a bad bowler. I was blaming the journalists for overhyping him.

Edit: Actually realised that one can interpret my post in 2 ways depending on how they guess the 4-character word that came as '****'.

 

[weldone]

Thread lacks Atul Sharma, easily the fastest ever. All natural. True story.

Be careful when you mention his name. His ex-coach will google search by his name, revisit CW, and destroy your e-career.