Hussain vs Vaughan

[honestbharani]

I think Hussain > Vaughan, because he got a sluggish team into a good team.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Did you hear Hussain discussing Vaughan at Sky yesterday (during the storms)?
He talked about his own failings as a #3 batsman, and said Vaughan needed to make a lot of 100's from that position, as he himself should have done. He was very frank about his own failings. Good words, I thought.

Sometimes I think Vaughan is "over-captaining" a bit. Field changes after nearly every ball. Yesterday he had an Ozzie edge flying to the slip position just vacated the ball before. It happens, but I didn't really understand the field change in the first place. But, he's definitely not a "laissez-faire" type of captain and for the moment that's a good thing, I'd say.

Yeah, agreed about the over-captaincy. He's good though, he's pro-active and gets the best from his players, and importantly he's confident and aggressive and believes England can beat anyone. But, sometimes he does odd things, and I think as he gets more experienced he might calm down on that a bit. Sometimes, he gets things just right and England is doing well, and then he changes them for no reason, like in the ODI yesterday when Flintoff and Giles were keeping Australia tied down, especially Martyn, and he brought himself on for Flintoff and Martyn smashed him away for 4 to begin a 13 run over and break the pressure.

 

[luckyeddie]

Which begs the question

Waugh<---> ?

Rikki Clarke, of course. It's all coming true - DD's Christmas Carol will go down in the annals of history as an awful - I mean awesome - bit of English classical writing to rank alongside the works of Shakespeare, Chaucer and Bill Frindall.

 

[tooextracool]

i think that hussain was the perfect captain when he was picked and vaughan is the perfect captain for the current team. hussain was selected at a time when there was plenty of experienced players, but no discipline or unity in the side & plenty of behind the scenes drama,and he was the best person to solve that issue. vaughan of course was the ideal choice at a time when there when there was a lot more talent coming through, when what the team needed was someone who was more laidback and of course the fact that he shared similar interests with the rest of the 'playstation' bunch than hussain did.
i think vaughan is certainly better at on-field decisions than hussain was.That is not to say that hussain was poor in field placings, but his innovative field placings didnt work plenty of times, while vaughan's by and large have. however i'd think that neither of the 2 would have been capable of leading the team to the anywhere near the same success had they been the captain of their respective sides.

 

[tooextracool]

So Vaughan's test average of over 45 is what?? Generous??.

its a bit below 40 since hes taken over though, and thats probably raised a bit against b'desh.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Hmm.. I think Vaughan will have five or six years left in him by the time the guard changes - which means we change over in around 2011. Waugh took over at 34, so we need someone around 28 now.

Strauss fits the bill... but can he go on to 40 and win everything? My heart says yes.

 

[archie mac]

Hmm.. I think Vaughan will have five or six years left in him by the time the guard changes - which means we change over in around 2011. Waugh took over at 34, so we need someone around 28 now.

Strauss fits the bill... but can he go on to 40 and win everything? My heart says yes.

England have a habit of sacking their coaches throughout history. So I would be surprised if he can last in the top job for that long.

 

[Neil Pickup]

England have a habit of sacking their coaches throughout history. So I would be surprised if he can last in the top job for that long.

This is a New England

 

[badgerhair]

England have a habit of sacking their coaches throughout history. So I would be surprised if he can last in the top job for that long.

Duncan Fletcher has been in office for six years and is showing no signs of leaving, and the ECB are doing what they can to persuade him to stay virtually forever, so it's questionable what relevance this has to the topic under discussion.

Alec Stewart was the last England captain to be sacked. The previous one was Gatting. Strikes me that Archie Mac is probably remembering his own playing days rather than the late 20th and early 21st century.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[archie mac]

Duncan Fletcher has been in office for six years and is showing no signs of leaving, and the ECB are doing what they can to persuade him to stay virtually forever, so it's questionable what relevance this has to the topic under discussion.

Alec Stewart was the last England captain to be sacked. The previous one was Gatting. Strikes me that Archie Mac is probably remembering his own playing days rather than the late 20th and early 21st century.

Cheers,

Mike

Very clever Badgerhair, but I don't think we have to go back quite that far: Close, Illingworth, Denness, Greig, Boycott and Botham come to mind. I also think after reading his book that Nasser could see the writing on the war. Atherton in his book, suggests he was also on shakey ground.

I was also unaware that Fletcher was the captain of England? Time will tell, but I have a feeling that on this one, the Mac, will not be eating humble pie.

 

[luckyeddie]

I was also unaware that Fletcher was the captain of England? Time will tell, but I have a feeling that on this one, the Mac, will not be eating humble pie.

Keith was, but he's probably a bit young for archie mac

 

[archie mac]

Keith was, but he's probably a bit young for archie mac

I should have said, I was unaware that he IS the present captain of England.

 

[Mister Wright]

i think that hussain was the perfect captain when he was picked and vaughan is the perfect captain for the current team. hussain was selected at a time when there was plenty of experienced players, but no discipline or unity in the side & plenty of behind the scenes drama,and he was the best person to solve that issue. vaughan of course was the ideal choice at a time when there when there was a lot more talent coming through, when what the team needed was someone who was more laidback and of course the fact that he shared similar interests with the rest of the 'playstation' bunch than hussain did.
i think vaughan is certainly better at on-field decisions than hussain was.That is not to say that hussain was poor in field placings, but his innovative field placings didnt work plenty of times, while vaughan's by and large have. however i'd think that neither of the 2 would have been capable of leading the team to the anywhere near the same success had they been the captain of their respective sides.

Well said, agree with everything.

 

[Richard]

Nasser Hussain gets my vote. England didn't have good team then and still Nasser ended up winning a series in Pak, SA, drawing one in India and moreover rebuilt a team for the future.

PLEAAAAAASE!!!!!!!!!!!
Hussain didn't have a good team?
Very briefly, yes, but Hussain certainly DID have a very, very good team...
Atherton
Trescothick
Hussain
Vaughan
Stewart
Thorpe
Hick
White
Cork
Caddick
Gough
A very, very good side indeed, aside from the smaller-print players, who were almost replaced by Butcher and Ramprakash the following summer, which would have made the side complete.
It didn't last long, and Hussain's stock rose as his team got worse, but to say Hussain never had a good side is utterly ridiculous.

 

[Richard]

The better captain?

I would say both have their advantages. While Hussain was great with tactics and converted an ordinary side into a good side, Vaughan is turning the team into world beaters. Both exceptionally difficult jobs.

Cant decide between the two. Hussain but only just.

Reading this thread it's amazing...
So many people have such one-dimensional ideas of the Hussain-captaincy\Vaughan-captaincy thing!
Hussain HAD A GOOD SIDE!!!!!!!! For a time. He also had a few very poor sides, and as such there were some disappointments in his time (least notably the 2 4-1 Ashes thrashings and more notably the 3 series where we went 1-0 up and 3 times let it slip back to 1-1 [Pak home, NZ away and Ind home]).
So far Vaughan has only had 1 disappointment, Sri Lanka, and otherwise things have gone his way.
World cricket in Hussain's day was generally much stronger than it has been in Vaughan's comparatively brief day. For a start, Vaughan's played 2 Bangladesh series already, and he's also faced extremely poor New Zealand and West Indies sides and a misfiring South Africa.
If Vaughan had captained in similar style with his team it'd probably have lost a lot more had it played the opposition Hussain's team did.
Similarly, Hussain's team would almost certainly have had a decent chance against the teams Vaughan's side has faced.
The only time Vaughan's side has faced tough opposition is his first series, to an extent in South Africa and in Sri Lanka.

 

[greg]

Vaughan has far more in common with Steve Waugh as a captain than Mark Taylor

 

[howardj]

Crikey I hope if England win the Ashes - drawing a long bow, I know - Hussain doesn't take much of the credit, which I feel he will. People always look back through rose-coloured glasses at a player's career. Truth is, Vaughan - and definitely not Hussain - is responsible for the rise of this team. Stay the hell out, Nasser!

 

[Richard]

Hmm, I'd say the other way around.
Vaughan's really not contributed massively, he's just been in the right place at the right time.
Honestly - very little has been down to inspired captaincy.
And the way people overrate his handling of Ashley Giles - I mean, JEEEZUS!

 

[Run like Inzy]

I reckon we can't judge them until we see this summers Ashes. It is the benchmark for all England captain. I think if Vaughan can atleast win 2 tests in the series (or lose the series by one test) he will have proved he is a better captain than Vaughan. If he wins a test match which isn't a dead rubber like the ones Nasser ones its even better. At the moment i feel Vaughan is better but needs to improve his credability as a one day player.

 

[marc71178]

A very, very good side indeed, aside from the smaller-print players

Hmm, so Trescothick (4775 runs @ 45.47) isn't a good player, but Craig White (1052 runs @ 24.46, 59 wickets @ 37.62) is.