How important Mcgrath and Warne are to Australia..

[Zinzan]

sure there aren't the stars running around in Australian domestic cricket... I'll give you that, that there's none of these guys...

But still the majority of world cricketers playing test matches are no better than the domestic players in aus.

I don't think Aust domestic cricket is quite as strong a level as test cricket, but I agree there are a number of Australian fridge players who would waltz into other sides.

Lee, Both Husseys, Bichel, Bevan, Tait and Elliott to name a few.

 

[Zinzan]

Oh and add Mcgill to that list

 

[Deja moo]

That's got nothing to do with it. The reason their stats are so high and blown out is because they play against tripe each week in their domestic comp and it's nowhere near as tough as the Aussie domestic comp... it has nothing to do with it.

Nathan Bracken, Stuart Clarke, Damien Wright, Joe Dawes and Matthew Nicholson would also I feel be good chances in most test teams world wide.

Also if you're questioning the fact that Aus's domestic comp isn't as strong as other test teams can u explain these results..

Victoria v West Indies 5th January 2005: Victoria won by 7 wickets
Western Australian Second XI v Pakistan 1-3 December 2004: Western Australian Second XI won by 10 runs
Western Australia v Pakistan 9-12 December 2004: Western Australia won by 10 wickets
NSW v NZ 11-14 November 2004: NSW won by 9 wickets
Rockingham-Mandurah (hehehe) v Zimbabwe 28-30 Sep 2003: Match Drawn
Victoria v India 25-27 November 2003: Match drawn (after Vic scored 8/518 in first innings)
Queensland Academy of Sport v India 29 November to 1 December 2003: Match Drawn (after QAS scored 6/304 declared in first innings)

There have only been two other first class matches i could find that have been played in this time and they were the only two that touring teams have won (and even then they weren't again number 1 domestic teams with one being a Victorian Invitational XI)

Now if anyone wants to argue the fact that the teams weren't playing their number 1 line up etc and weren't really putting 100% in, if you go check out the scorecards in these games all teams were putting up as good as they can.

The majority of these games saw the Aussie first class sides win, and even a WA second XI came up winners against Pakistan (supposedly the 5th best side in the world)... yet you still want to tell me that Australian domestic cricket isn't on level terms with Test standards.

That proves what ???



1997/98 Australia vs Mumbai.....Mumbai won by 10 wickets. Scorecard

2000/01 Australia vs Mumbai......Match drawn ( Mum 328/9 dec and 191/8 dec. Aus 203 all out and 141/6 ) Full Scorecard

2004/05 Australia vs Mumbai......Match drawn Scorecard

 

[chaminda_00]

sure there aren't the stars running around in Australian domestic cricket... I'll give you that, that there's none of these guys...

But still the majority of world cricketers playing test matches are no better than the domestic players in aus.

Hey Stats think of it this way, 20% of Australia domestic players would probably make international sides, but something like 50 to 60% of international players would make Australia domestic sides, IMO off course.

 

[marc71178]

Hey Stats think of it this way, 20% of Australia domestic players would probably make international sides

That's a massive overstatement.

 

[chaminda_00]

That's a massive overstatement.

Why aren't i surprised u think that, but if u look at most domestic sides their would be about 3 guys that would make other Test Sides, in turn there is probably 6 or 7 guys from the international sides that would make domestic sides.

 

[marc71178]

Go on then.

Name all these so called stars then,

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Go on then.

Name all these so called stars then,

Three from each side? Well, players who I think would make one of the top 8 test sides:

New South Wales: Most of the team. Macgill, Jaques, Lee, Haddin, Thornley, Bracken, Clarke.
Queensland: Maher, Symonds, Bichel, Watson, Dawes.
Western Australia: Hussey, North, Williams, Hogg (West Indies and South Africa at least)
South Australia: Tait, Lehmann. There's no third player really, maybe Cosgrove would have a shot at one of the weak test sides, maybe Cullen.
Tasmania: Bevan, Wright. Maybe Dawson, given how many unproven keepers get thrown into various sides because they can bat. Maybe DiVenuto.
Victoria: Elliot, Hodge, Arnberger, White

There's a few arguable ones there, but I'd say all of those players would get at the very least serious consideration for one of the top 8 test sides in the world, and most of them would be walk-up starts.

 

[Robertinho]

That proves what ???



1997/98 Australia vs Mumbai.....Mumbai won by 10 wickets. Scorecard

2000/01 Australia vs Mumbai......Match drawn ( Mum 328/9 dec and 191/8 dec. Aus 203 all out and 141/6 ) Full Scorecard

2004/05 Australia vs Mumbai......Match drawn Scorecard

The 1st match you posted was 8-odd years ago...

The second match was 5-odd years ago...

And Australia were going to win the 3rd match.

Ian's examples were all recent and, if drawn, probably would have gone the Australian sides way.

 

[Deja moo]

The 1st match you posted was 8-odd years ago...

The second match was 5-odd years ago...

And Australia were going to win the 3rd match.

Ian's examples were all recent and, if drawn, probably would have gone the Australian sides way.

You miss the point. Just because Mumbai won the first one there and had the wood on Aus in the second does not mean that Mumbai would have challenged most test teams on the international arena (even though the team on the receiving end on each occaision happened to be the number one test team). Tour matches are an opportunity for visiting teams to test out strategies, get some practice for the players and to acclimatize. Suggesting that state teams would do extremely well because of a few wins/drawn games vs visiting teams is plain misinterpretation of results.

 

[tooextracool]

Three from each side? Well, players who I think would make one of the top 8 test sides:

New South Wales: Most of the team. Macgill, Jaques, Lee, Haddin, Thornley, Bracken, Clarke.
Queensland: Maher, Symonds, Bichel, Watson, Dawes.
Western Australia: Hussey, North, Williams, Hogg (West Indies and South Africa at least)
South Australia: Tait, Lehmann. There's no third player really, maybe Cosgrove would have a shot at one of the weak test sides, maybe Cullen.
Tasmania: Bevan, Wright. Maybe Dawson, given how many unproven keepers get thrown into various sides because they can bat. Maybe DiVenuto.
Victoria: Elliot, Hodge, Arnberger, White

There's a few arguable ones there, but I'd say all of those players would get at the very least serious consideration for one of the top 8 test sides in the world, and most of them would be walk-up starts.

you'd have to be an absolute joker if you thought that bracken would come under consideration for any test side other than bangladesh. and i'd be extremely surprised if he even made the b'desh side.

 

[chaminda_00]

you'd have to be an absolute joker if you thought that bracken would come under consideration for any test side other than bangladesh. and i'd be extremely surprised if he even made the b'desh side.

You have to have no cricket knowleadge if you solely judge a player by TWO Tests.

 

[tooextracool]

even though those 2 tests proved him to be the most one dimensional bowler possible?

 

[chaminda_00]

even though those 2 tests proved him to be the most one dimensional bowler possible?

yeah whatever, it pretty obvious that you didn't watch him bowl a ball this season and haven't seen one ODI match that he has played. Judging a player on TWO matches is just pathetic.

 

[tooextracool]

on topic, personally i dont think that gillespie as good as he is, is capable of leading the aussie attack on his own, hes far too 'shoaib akhterish' to do so.

 

[tooextracool]

yeah whatever, it pretty obvious that you didn't watch him bowl a ball this season

no i havent obviously, nor have i claimed that i have. i seriously doubt hes made improvements in such a short period of time though.

and haven't seen one ODI match that he has played. Judging a player on TWO matches is just pathetic.

i did watch the ODIs that he played in. and he is a capable ODI player, except that ODIs further confirm the fact that hes only accurate, but is still too one dimensional. again the old mullally case.

 

[chaminda_00]

no i havent obviously, nor have i claimed that i have. i seriously doubt hes made improvements in such a short period of time though.



i did watch the ODIs that he played in. and he is a capable ODI player, except that ODIs further confirm the fact that hes only accurate, but is still too one dimensional. again the old mullally case.

One dimensional: well the fact that he can swing the ball as much as any bowler outside Test Cricket makes him a lot more then one dimensional. And he has improved considerably since in the last season, one of the most improved bowlers in Australia. He is also starting to learn how to ball better on pitches that don't offer as much swing and movement as well prefecting reverse swing. He is by far more then a one dimensional player. Just cus he bowl below himself in two games doesn't mean he can't play, you also have to remember he was injuried his hand during the last test as well. If it wasn't for the fact that it was Steve Waugh's last test he would come off.

 

[tooextracool]

One dimensional: well the fact that he can swing the ball as much as any bowler outside Test Cricket makes him a lot more then one dimensional.

except that he can only swing the ball one way, and he has nothing else in his armoury that makes him useful in conditions other than bowler friendly conditions.

And he has improved considerably since in the last season, one of the most improved bowlers in Australia. He is also starting to learn how to ball better on pitches that don't offer as much swing and movement as well prefecting reverse swing. He is by far more then a one dimensional player. Just cus he bowl below himself in two games doesn't mean he can't play, you also have to remember he was injuried his hand during the last test as well. If it wasn't for the fact that it was Steve Waugh's last test he would come off.

its one season, i dont think anyone can suggest that someone whos been mediocre for nearly all his domestic career would be considered for all 8 international sides based on one good season. if hes indeed made those improvements, we'll find out eventually.

 

[JASON]

Current voting trend in Baggy green poll - Which current Australian player do you think will retire first ?

Justin Langer 25.9% 2547 votes
Glenn McGrath 23.9% 2350 votes
Shane Warne 31.3% 3085 votes
Other 18.9% or 1863 votes

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

you'd have to be an absolute joker if you thought that bracken would come under consideration for any test side other than bangladesh. and i'd be extremely surprised if he even made the b'desh side.

Bracken is in consideration for the Australian test side (third in line after Lee and Tait, undoubtedly), so yes I would imagine he would be in contention for various other sides. He is capable of swinging the ball as much as anybody in the world, and even though he is quite often extremely average when the ball is not swinging that would still get him consideration for some of the more average test sides in the bowling department.