• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Hadlee vs Kallis

Hadlee vs Kallis in Tests.


  • Total voters
    38

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
It's a difficult contest actually; a bowling all-rounder vs a batting all-rounder. Hadlee is up there with Murali as the most valuable player to his side over a very long period of time. Assuming we're discussing Richard rather than any of the other Hadlees.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Kallis has more MotM awards in Tests than anyone in history.
Sshhh.... he caused his team to not win and did not contribute enough to be truly world class... it is irrelevant what he actually accomplished in his career! Perception is way more important!
 

subshakerz

International Captain
Interesting. Would you rate Ambrose ahead of Kallis then?
Ambrose, not sure.

As is known, I don't rate Kallis the bat quite that highly, and while his bowling was useful, I think the value of a top drawer ATG all-conditions fast bowler is hard to ignore.
 

BazBall21

State Vice-Captain
Ambrose, not sure.

As is known, I don't rate Kallis the bat quite that highly, and while his bowling was useful, I think the value of a top drawer ATG all-conditions fast bowler is hard to ignore.
I think if Ambrose just played in Asia a little more with success, it would be difficult to not rank him as a top 3 pace bowler of all time.
 

Zinzan

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Hadlee comfortably for me, but that could well be my NZ bias coming through.
 

ankitj

Hall of Fame Member
It's a difficult contest actually; a bowling all-rounder vs a batting all-rounder. Hadlee is up there with Murali as the most valuable player to his side over a very long period of time. Assuming we're discussing Richard rather than any of the other Hadlees.
While Kallis might not have been near as valuable to his team as Hadlee was, former's usefulness in the lineup is often overlooked. As a 5th bowler he provided a very solid support act that most team will given an arm for. On odd occasion when Kallis didn't play for SA, you suddenly felt the SA bowling attack lacked depth.
 

Bolo.

International Debutant
Bowlers are more valuable than bats. Factoring it into quality is going to leave a situation where Anderson=Sachin though. Not an ideal route to take... not that we should be making the comparison in the first place.

Think I might go with Hadlee, but I am sympathy voting for Kallis, cos there is a hair between them at most.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
While Kallis might not have been near as valuable to his team as Hadlee was...
Why do people so underestimate Kallis's value to SA for his 15 year career... I mean I would really like to know the allrounder currently in world cricket or since Kallis started playing that could replace Kallis in any team and provide the same balance, I would love to hear it...
 

Neil Young

State 12th Man
For me, this is an oranges and apples comparison as players. But in terms of importance to their respective teams, Hadlee by some distance.
 

Neil Young

State 12th Man
Why do people so underestimate Kallis's value to SA for his 15 year career... I mean I would really like to know the allrounder currently in world cricket or since Kallis started playing that could replace Kallis in any team and provide the same balance, I would love to hear it...
I don't think they do and, if anything, it's a reflection of SA's strength at the time that he may not be considered more valuable. Hadlee carried NZ cricket for years. I don't honestly consider Hadlee that much of an all rounder, anyway. Certainly not one anywhere near Kallis' level.
 

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think they do and, if anything, it's a reflection of SA's strength at the time that he may not be considered more valuable. Hadlee carried NZ cricket for years. I don't honestly consider Hadlee that much of an all rounder, anyway. Certainly not one anywhere near Kallis' level.
You beat me to it. I just about remember Gooch's comment in 1986 about facing Hadlee at one end and Ilford 2nd XI at the other. Now that's a pretty silly comment, but it does reflect the importance of Hadlee to NZ's attack, whereas SA had far more fire power at their disposal. And it's not as if Hadlee never did much with the bat in some key situations; against WI in 1980 and beating England at Christchurch in 1984 spring to mind. I don't think it's disrespectful to Kallis to say that Hadlee was more important to his side, and it doesn't alter the fact that I'd have loved to see someone of his calibre playing for England. But NZ wouldn't have won many tests without Hadlee, whereas SA would still have won plenty without Kallis.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I don't think they do and, if anything, it's a reflection of SA's strength at the time that he may not be considered more valuable. Hadlee carried NZ cricket for years. I don't honestly consider Hadlee that much of an all rounder, anyway. Certainly not one anywhere near Kallis' level.
Second half of his career the batting quality surrounding him was almost as good... replacements generally not anywhere near as close. But when you take in his ability to bowl high quality away swing bowling and the skill of his slip fielding... I mean there is maybe 5 players in the history of cricket that produced as much as him as a total cricketer; and yet consistently somehow he was not the player that SA built the entire team around for the vast majority of his career...

I mean I would love people to name some players that would replace Kallis and keep the SA team winning consistently....
 

trundler

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Think I might go with Hadlee, but I am sympathy voting for Kallis, cos there is a hair between them at most.
I think it's Hadlee by some distance. Hadlee is GOAT level with the ball and a useful lower order batsman. Kallis was an ATG batsman and a good fifth bowler. Their secondary skills cancel each other out basically by Hadlee is a level above in his primary skill. This is without getting into all the intangibles but I'll say they do matter since Viv came beat Lara by such a big margin.
 

Top