Gooch vs Gower: Who was the better Test bat?

[BazBall21]

Two English contemporaries that were polar opposites. In terms of both batting style and off-field approach. A personality clash was seemingly inevitable. But which one in terms of overall career was the better Test batsman?

 

[bagapath]

Great poll. Am gonna have to think through and vote. One guy never averaged below 40 in his entire career. And another one who upped his average by 4 points or so in the last third of his. Overall consistency versus superior peak. Tight one actually.

 

[BazBall21]

Great poll. Am gonna have to think through and vote. One guy never averaged below 40 in his entire career. And another one who upped his average by 4 points or so in the last third of his. Overall consistency versus superior peak. Tight one actually.

Gooch's average was 36.9 following the 1989 Ashes debacle. His final Test century, a double hundred against New Zealand in 1994, got it up to 44.8. Ended up finishing 5.7 runs higher than he was at the start of 1990.

 

[subshakerz]

I went with Gooch as opening was a harder job.

 

[Chubb]

Gooch averaged 50+ opening the batting in England after, I think, 1989. No other opener comes close to touching that record and it included what many rating systems still believe was the best test innings ever played, 154* against the Windies.

Have some bias because I remember watching Gooch as a kid, but never saw Gower.

It's interesting to consider how they would do today. Would Gower do better in a modern professional environment that allowed his talent to thrive? Or would he still have a tendency to look a million dollars and throw his wicket away? Feel like Gooch would be a monster, his attitude was very "modern".

 

[Burgey]

Gooch imho, and pretty handily. Bloke just seemed to get better with age, much like myself really.

Weirdly, if you'd asked me this question when they were still playing or just after both had retired, I'd have probably said Gower. Probably because he was pretty significant in some Ashes wins for England against us, whereas Gooch's late-career epic run basically coincided with England being ****e against us.

Gooch also gets massive props from me for the answering machine message he had during the summer of 1989: "You've reached Graham Gooch. I'm currently out - probably lbw to Terry Alderman. Leave a short message and I'll return your call."

 

[wpdavid]

Such a tough call. It's tempting to go for Gooch because it's currently 16 years since we debuted a decent opening bat, and I'd pay hard cash for someone like him at the top of the order now. But even then, it depends of which version of Gooch we're talking about. 1990 to 1994 is a no brainer in his favour. Prior to that, it's Gower by a mile, even if Gooch's 36.9 average up to 1989 is way better than what we've seen from any recent openers. In the end, I was swayed by broader issues. Gooch got himself banned for three years for taking the rand in 1982, and, 18 months after his return, declared himself unavailable for the 1986/87 Ashes. Gower could have gone to SA in 1982 but chose not to. And he never ducked out of an Ashes tour. So I'll go for the guy who is more likely to be available.

 

[Burgey]

Ooh @wpdavid bringing up some pretty salient points right here.

 

[BazBall21]

Such a tough call. It's tempting to go for Gooch because it's currently 16 years since we debuted a decent opening bat, and I'd pay hard cash for someone like him at the top of the order now. But even then, it depends of which version of Gooch we're talking about. 1990 to 1994 is a no brainer in his favour. Prior to that, it's Gower by a mile, even if Gooch's 36.9 average up to 1989 is way better than what we've seen from any recent openers. In the end, I was swayed by broader issues. Gooch got himself banned for three years for taking the rand in 1982, and, 18 months after his return, declared himself unavailable for the 1986/87 Ashes. Gower could have gone to SA in 1982 but chose not to. And he never ducked out of an Ashes tour. So I'll go for the guy who is more likely to be available.

Gooch’s average of 37 up to then was disappointing and highlights a lack of consistency. I have always felt that some great performances before 1990 like his tour of WI in 1980/81 and the runs at home to them in 1988 prove it was class shining through instead of an insane purple patch. It is difficult to know if he would have ended up averaging more or less if he didn’t go to SA, but he did score heavily on that tour and I think it was after the ban he became a class player.
Agree that Gower deserves credit for not going to SA.

 

[wpdavid]

Gooch’s average of 37 up to then was disappointing and highlights a lack of consistency. I have always felt that some great performances before 1990 like his tour of WI in 1980/81 and the runs at home to them in 1988 prove it was class shining through instead of an insane purple patch. It is difficult to know if he would have ended up averaging more or less if he didn’t go to SA, but he did score heavily on that tour and I think it was after the ban he became a class player.
Agree that Gower deserves credit for not going to SA.

Gooch's record against those 1980s WI attacks was borderline extraordinary. Hopefully his actual average in those matches won't make a mockery of that statement; perhaps someone could look it up. But I suspect that it's significantly higher than his career average of 37 by the end of 1989. Oddly, he also played spin pretty well too. It was the in-between stuff that did for him in the 1980s, Alderman the obvious example in 1981 and 1989.

 

[wpdavid]

So Gooch averaged 41.8 across 38 innings at the top of the order against WI during the 1980s. Perhaps not significantly higher than his overall test average by the end of 1989, but a terrific effort.

 

[BazBall21]

Gooch's record against those 1980s WI attacks was borderline extraordinary. Hopefully his actual average in those matches won't make a mockery of that statement; perhaps someone could look it up. But I suspect that it's significantly higher than his career average of 37 by the end of 1989. Oddly, he also played spin pretty well too. It was the in-between stuff that did for him in the 1980s, Alderman the obvious example in 1981 and 1989.

Yeah Alderman in 89 is the well-documented example, but Gooch got stuck against gentle medium pace on a number of occasions. Few times against Lanka in the 80s, home to India 1979 and 1986, away to New Zealand 1992 etc.
Gooch averaged 41.81 against 1980s West Indies (19 tests) and 44.83 against them overall from 26 Tests. Their attack he faced in the early 90s was still world class. One of England's greatest ever players of fast bowling for sure.

 

[BazBall21]

Above 40 against WI throughout the 80s as an opener when you're batting in either England or the Caribbean is still seriously good. He did not let us down in any of the four series' while the team were getting annihilated. I think his 80s record against them and like you say the way he handled spin in the subcontinent proves his great peak at the end was not a purple patch, he was a class act.

 

[wpdavid]

Having done a bit of homework, it appears that Gooch averaged 34.8 against everyone else by the end of 1989, compared to 41.8 against WI. Your earlier point about him improving after the 1982-84 ban was correct actually. Even against non-WI attacks, he averaged 39 from 1985 to 1989, and that includes his horror show against Alderman in 1989. I wonder what would have happened if England hadn't lost another batch of openers due to the second SA tour in 1990. Gooch was 36 by then and had averaged 20 in the 1989 Ashes. It's possible that the selectors could have called time on Gooch's career and/or restored Gatting to the captaincy.

 

[BazBall21]

Having done a bit of homework, it appears that Gooch averaged 34.8 against everyone else by the end of 1989, compared to 41.8 against WI. Your earlier point about him improving after the 1982-84 ban was correct actually. Even against non-WI attacks, he averaged 39 from 1985 to 1989, and that includes his horror show against Alderman in 1989. I wonder what would have happened if England hadn't lost another batch of openers due to the second SA tour in 1990. Gooch was 36 by then and had averaged 20 in the 1989 Ashes. It's possible that the selectors could have called time on Gooch's career and/or restored Gatting to the captaincy.

Massive fan of Gooch, but he was disappointing outside Tests against WI before the 90s and I have no problem with it working against him in comparisons to consistent players who may not have been capable of what he could produce at his best. Think it was after the ban when his steely reputation of churning out a professional performance every single innings developed.
I think about that a lot, the second SA tour could well have rescued him.

 

[shortpitched713]

One is an opener and the other is a middle order batsman. Your poll has been reported as being in breach to the Scientific Authority of Polling Rigor. May God have mercy on your soul.

 

[andruid]

Mike Gatting

 

[TheGreatest]

Gower was a natural, great timer of the ball, with great hand eye coordination, but Gooch really worked hard on this batting and had a professional attitude towards the game. Had Gower taken his game more seriously he would definitely been an all time great.
I really love Gower bat but for me Gooch was probably England's best batter in the 80s and early 90s. One of the few batsmen of that era who scored plenty against the mighty West Indian attacks, home and away.

 

[BazBall21]

Gower was a natural, great timer of the ball, with great hand eye coordination, but Gooch really worked hard on this batting and had a professional attitude towards the game. Had Gower taken his game more seriously he would definitely been an all time great.
I really love Gower bat but for me Gooch was probably England's best batter in the 80s and early 90s. One of the few batsmen of that era who scored plenty against the mighty West Indian attacks, home and away.

Yeah it's a cliche but Gower is certainly one of those that could have even better. Someone made an interesting point that he would have been suited to central contracts which he has said before. Very good player though still.

 

[wpdavid]

Gower's take on the matter was that 'It's hard work making batting look effortless.'

And I absolutely agree that he would have benefited from central contracts. As would most of that generation.