Garry Sobers, The Bowler?

[Prince EWS]

You mean he was like Tendulkar as a bowler??? Tendulkar's bowling average is 52 but his strike rate isn't too bad then. His strike rate is 91. And not to forget he was a very versatile bowler. Leg breaks, off-breaks, googlies, medium pace, he could bowl them all. And he was a pretty decent partnership breaker.

 

[honestbharani]

You mean he was like Tendulkar as a bowler??? Tendulkar's bowling average is 52 but his strike rate isn't too bad then. His strike rate is 91. And not to forget he was a very versatile bowler. Leg breaks, off-breaks, googlies, medium pace, he could bowl them all. And he was a pretty decent partnership breaker.

lol but Sachin won't bowl every match.. You are getting it the wrong way. I think I gave a pretty good example in Watson.. He bowls in every match, its just that he won't really get an extended bowl unless we are talking of a good or big partnership and rather flat conditions.. Therefore, for most of the batting allrounders I believe the stats need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

 

[honestbharani]

hey.. reserve it for my Watson example.

 

[smash84]

lol but Sachin won't bowl every match.. You are getting it the wrong way. I think I gave a pretty good example in Watson.. He bowls in every match, its just that he won't really get an extended bowl unless we are talking of a good or big partnership and rather flat conditions.. Therefore, for most of the batting allrounders I believe the stats need to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I honestly couldn't find anybody with a comparable strike rate to Sir Garry except Sachin .....and I think even in Sir Garry's time the good spinners had strike rates somewhere in the 60s right???

And Watson has a very good strike rate so far. 53.6.

 

[honestbharani]

hey.. reserve it for my Watson example.

BTW, there is just one question for every single guy here who thinks Sobers bowling is overrated.. You seriously think you know more than just about every single cricketer and journalist who saw him bowl????????????

 

[smash84]

I honestly couldn't find anybody with a comparable strike rate to Sir Garry except Sachin .....and I think even in Sir Garry's time the good spinners had strike rates somewhere in the 60s right???

And Watson has a very good strike rate so far. 53.6.

which makes me wonder why is he being under bowled???

 

[honestbharani]

I honestly couldn't find anybody with a comparable strike rate to Sir Garry except Sachin .....and I think even in Sir Garry's time the good spinners had strike rates somewhere in the 60s right???

And Watson has a very good strike rate so far. 53.6.

Nah.. as I said there was a great thread about all this and I think the average SR of spinners of Sobers' era was in the 70s and 94 is not THAT far off actually considering he bowled spin majority of the time coz it taxed him lesser as a bowler. And he was never as good as a spinner as he was as a seamer by everybody who have seen him bowl.


And I daresay there is more than enough example that there are a number of instances when the stats don't tell the full story and this is one of them.. Really love the fact that we have got a bunch of people who have seen nothing but statsguru pages claiming they know more than each and every cricketer and journalist of that era.. Try reading cricket history books instead of statsguru, guys.. And for more, refer to SJS posts on the great man's bowling. That thread was started by Sanz, I think..

 

[honestbharani]

which makes me wonder why is he being under bowled???

simple.. coz his batting is more important and in his case, as often as he is called upon when someone is going well, he also gets a go against Pakistan in England.. I am sure Sobers would have some damage too if he were given THIS Pak batting line up and THOSE tracks.

 

[smash84]

BTW, there is just one question for every single guy here who thinks Sobers bowling is overrated.. You seriously think you know more than just about every single cricketer and journalist who saw him bowl????????????

No. But I do think that the fact that Sobers can play as the best batsman in the world in the morning and in the evening he would come out and bowl left arm seamers and then for a change (maybe when he was tired or maybe when the pitch was helpful) he would bowl spin (doesn't matter that he wasn't taking wickets before finishing 15 overs)........this could cloud their judgement somewhat don't you think???? I mean I am all for Sobers but his stats look very bad. At least some good should come out of his stats right????

 

[smash84]

simple.. coz his batting is more important and in his case, as often as he is called upon when someone is going well, he also gets a go against Pakistan in England.. I am sure Sobers would have some damage too if he were given THIS Pak batting line up and THOSE tracks.

In those days the Pakistan bowlers were helping him to 365....the world record then ....

 

[honestbharani]

The other thing, of course, when you talk of his bowling is the fact that he had MANY match winning spells.. I mean 5 fers and stuff.. So obviously there was a patch of his career when he averaged something like 29 or 30 with the ball and a SR of 65 odd.. He was probably a pie chucker either side of it bowling SLA lollipops.. We never know. Maybe he didn't care enough about his bowling later on, as Bradman famously remarked about Hammond.


I dare say most of the arguments for Sobers as a bowler could also perhaps by applied for Hammond.

 

[honestbharani]

No. But I do think that the fact that Sobers can play as the best batsman in the world in the morning and in the evening he would come out and bowl left arm seamers and then for a change (maybe when he was tired or maybe when the pitch was helpful) he would bowl spin (doesn't matter that he wasn't taking wickets before finishing 15 overs)........this could cloud their judgement somewhat don't you think???? I mean I am all for Sobers but his stats look very bad. At least some good should come out of his stats right????

chk the split in his stats though. The old thread I am talking about did a great job of that breakdonwn. And chk the no. of 5 fers he has taken.. People just don't assume their favorite batsman also to be a much better bowler than he was. SOMETHING must have happened for them to rate him this high. Otherwise, any number of Indian fans would already be saying this about Sachin. (not on CW obviously but the "real" fanboys we encounter in youtube or cricinfo )

 

[honestbharani]

In those days the Pakistan bowlers were helping him to 365....the world record then ....

lol.. yeah funny how the tide has changed. But then again, Indian bowlers are still helping Afridi to test tons..

 

[weldone]

Well.....Aamir Sohail wasn't a great batsman but he was ok. The best opening pair for Pakistan was when he would open with Saeed Anwar (I know Pakistan's batting is a joke but it wasn't so bad in the 90s). His career average is 35. So Imran beats him comfortably. An average near 40 wasn't supposed to be so bad in the 80s and 90s.

So, the question is who is more important to a team: a batsman like Aamir Sohail, or a bowler who is a combination of Zaheer Khan and Daniel Vettori. Right?

All those who say bowlers are more important to a team might say the later (thus opining that Sobers' bowling is more important than Imran's batting), but since I'm not one of them I shall say that they are about equally important.

 

[Teja.]

They aren't. As per my knowledge, Sobers' bowling average as a fast bowler is near Zaheer's, not Sharma's.

However, if we are comparing Sobers' bowling stats with pure bowlers, then Imran's average as a batsman is comparable to which pure batsman, tbh?

The bowling average of 34 was achieved while taking an average of 2.5 wickets a match, not close to 4.

The thread is purely about the quality of Sobers' bowling. I agree that Imran on the whole was a pretty average batsman while comparing him to front-line batsman despite being awesome for a portion of his career.

 

[smash84]

So, the question is who is more important to a team: a batsman like Aamir Sohail, or a bowler who is a combination of Zaheer Khan and Daniel Vettori. Right?

Now that is a very interesting question .......No.....make that a combination of Vettori and Ishant Sharma.

lol.. yeah funny how the tide has changed. But then again, Indian bowlers are still helping Afridi to test tons..

That only happened once and that too a decade back right?????

The other thing, of course, when you talk of his bowling is the fact that he had MANY match winning spells.. I mean 5 fers and stuff.. So obviously there was a patch of his career when he averaged something like 29 or 30 with the ball and a SR of 65 odd.. He was probably a pie chucker either side of it bowling SLA lollipops.. We never know. Maybe he didn't care enough about his bowling later on, as Bradman famously remarked about Hammond.


I dare say most of the arguments for Sobers as a bowler could also perhaps by applied for Hammond.

Well then why is Kallis not rated as highly as Sobers??? I mean Kallis could bowl at real pace at times.

 

[smash84]

The bowling average of 34 was achieved while taking an average of 2.5 wickets a match, not close to 4.

The thread is purely about the quality of Sobers' bowling. I agree that Imran on the whole was a pretty average batsman while comparing him to front-line batsman despite being awesome for a portion of his career.

Agreed. Why is Imran's batting being brought in this thread????

Imran was no Bradman with the bat either. He was quite ordinary really. Well maybe just a little better than ordinary. But how is that related to Sobers bowling??? Sobers bowling looks quite innocuous really.

 

[Prince EWS]

Now that is a very interesting question .......No.....make that a combination of Vettori and Ishant Sharma.



That only happened once and that too a decade back right?????



Well then why is Kallis not rated as highly as Sobers??? I mean Kallis could bowl at real pace at times.

Kallis is too South African and vanilla to ever get the credit he deserves.

 

[weldone]

Now that is a very interesting question .......No.....make that a combination of Vettori and Ishant Sharma.

OK then compare that with the batting of Marcus North

 

[weldone]

Agreed. Why is Imran's batting being brought in this thread????

To drive across the point that the weaker discipline of an alrounder should be judged in the correct perspective. Comparing Sobers' bowling with a frontline bowler is like comparing the batting of a bowling alrounder with that of a pure batsman.