Ganguly vs Ranatunga

[subshakerz]

That is good logic and yeah I agree if someone picks side that way. But my opinion is slightly varied. Gavaskar, Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar and Pant in the top 5 spots are uncontestable. Likewise as you said, Kapil and Bumrah are certain making it 7 in the side. In addition, Jadeja will be my 8th member to be picked in that team indisputably at either 6-7-8 based on the team make-up.

Now, for the remaining 3 spots, we go to a selection process.

One batsman, one pacer and one spinner slot left. With the recent loss in form, it is between Kohli and Laxman for the 6th spot now. Pacer slot is between Zaheer/Srinath/Shami. Spinner slot is between Ashwin and Kumble. I will be going for Kohli-Zaheer-Ashwin here.

Come on bro, as bad as Kohli's form is he is a level above Laxman and has a firm spot in the XI.

Personally I can't drop Kumble from my side. So either Ashwin or Jadeja will make way.

 

[Godard]

Come on bro, as bad as Kohli's form is he is a level above Laxman and has a firm spot in the XI.

Personally I can't drop Kumble from my side. So either Ashwin or Jadeja will make way.

Kohli is also easily India’s best test captain.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Kohli is also easily India’s best test captain.

King ? Kohli

 

[h_hurricane]

How did this thread meandered on to making ATG XIs within the first page?

Edit: no more, lol

That is because Jadeja is equal to an ATG team.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Come on bro, as bad as Kohli's form is he is a level above Laxman and has a firm spot in the XI.

Agree but you've been clear that you factor in declines so if he averages 20s for another 4 years and ends with an average of 43 or something you'd have to downgrade him below vvs by your own logic

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ranatunga was marginally more annoying because on top of everything else he was an unfit fat **** as someone so eloquently put it. Sairav didn't quite those levels of girth.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Agree but you've been clear that you factor in declines so if he averages 20s for another 4 years and ends with an average of 43 or something you'd have to downgrade him below vvs by your own logic

Last 37 innings Kohli scored just 25 runs per innings it’s high time he needs to comeback to form to preserve his Legacy.

 

[h_hurricane]

Come on bro, as bad as Kohli's form is he is a level above Laxman and has a firm spot in the XI.

Personally I can't drop Kumble from my side. So either Ashwin or Jadeja will make way.

Can't help but to think that you over rate Kumble. He becomes a candidate only if you ignore all his dross series overseas and include only the good ones.
Some of the overseas series in mid to late 90s which he performed terribly. And bare in mind that he was picked in all those matches and had continuity going for him, unlike the current duo, who for the most part were replaced by each other.

1996 Eng - average of 67 (3 tests)
1996-97 SA - average of 48 (3 tests)
1997 SL - average of 86 (2 tests)
1999-00 Aus - average of 90 (3 tests)

There were also several moderate to mediocre ones like WI 1996-97, NZ 1998-99 during that phase.

He had some really good series like 2003-04 Aus, 2003-04 Pak, but that shouldn't be a sufficient criteria to pick him.

Ashwin and Jadeja haven't had anywhere near the same level of poor series overseas.

 

[CricketFan90s]

Who is the Best Spinner of India outside India ?

Bhagwath Subramanya Chandrasekhar

Away

1967-1979

26

42

6778

3266

100

6/38

12/104

32.66

2.89

67.7

8

1

Anil Kumble

Away

1990-2008

69

121

3343.0

681

9645

269

8/141

12/279

35.85

2.88

74.5

10

1

Harbhajan Singh

Away

1998-2015

48

87

1931.5

306

5913

152

7/120

10/153

38.90

3.06

76.2

7

1

Bishan Singh Bedi

Away

1967-1979

37

64

10973

4350

129

6/127

10/194

33.72

2.37

85.0

6

1

Ravichandran Ashwin

Away

2011-2022

36

65

1451.0

248

4264

133

7/83

10/160

32.06

2.93

65.4

6

1

Ravindrasinh Anirudhsinh Jadeja

Away

2013-2022

23

41

862.4

169

2381

69

6/138

7/236

34.50

2.76

75.0

2

0

Subhashchandra Pandharinath Gupte

Away

1953-1959

15

25

806.0

256

1854

65

7/162

7/164

28.52

2.30

74.4

6

0

 

[OverratedSanity]

Ashwin and Jadeja haven't had anywhere near the same level of poor series overseas.

I'm fairly sure this is untrue without even having to statsguru. Multiple times they've gone to Eng/Aus/SA (different countries they individually had poor series in) and struggled.

 

[anil1405]

The forum is going through a phase where I can start a "Who is the most beautiful female cricketer" thread right now and it would soon turn into a Ashwin and Jadeja discussion in no time.

 

[h_hurricane]

I'm fairly sure this is untrue without even having to statsguru. Multiple times they've gone to Eng/Aus/SA (different countries they individually had poor series in) and struggled.

They were collectively poor probably not individually for that many series.

Ashwin's worst series overseas was Aus in 2011-12. He also had a poor series in Aus 2014-15 and SA last season. Other than these 3, he didn't have a single series overseas in a decade, where he averaged 40+.

Jadeja had poor ones in NZ 2013-14 and 2 series in Eng (2014 and 2021).

For Kumble, apart from the 4 series I mentioned, there are also poor ones in SA 2001-02 and WI 2002.

Ashwin had issues in Aus and SA at his worst. Jadeja in Eng and NZ. Kumble was universally poor at his worst.

 

[Coronis]

They were collectively poor probably not individually for that many series.

Ashwin's worst series overseas was Aus in 2011-12. He also had a poor series in Aus 2014-15 and SA last season. Other than these 3, he didn't have a single series overseas in a decade, where he averaged 40+.

Jadeja had poor ones in NZ 2013-14 and 2 series in Eng (2014 and 2021).

For Kumble, apart from the 4 series I mentioned, there are also poor ones in SA 2001-02 and WI 2002.

Ashwin had issues in Aus and SA at his worst. Jadeja in Eng and NZ. Kumble was universally poor at his worst.

Doesn’t that mean Kumble was universally better at his best?

 

[h_hurricane]

Doesn’t that mean Kumble was universally better at his best?

Not sure. He had a great time in Aus and Pak in 2003-04. I rate his performance during the period. And a 6 for against SA in 1992-93. That is about it iirc.

For some one with a 18 year career and an average of nearly 36 overseas, I do not have much confidence in picking him for an AT team, like Subs has.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Not sure. He had a great time in Aus and Pak in 2003-04. I rate his performance during the period. And a 6 for against SA in 1992-93. That is about it iirc.

You're leaving a lot of series out here, kumble had solid tours of England in 02 and 07, and sa in 06. Bowled pretty well in Australia in 08 too.

 

[h_hurricane]

You're leaving a lot of series out here, kumble had solid tours of England in 02 and 07, and sa in 06. Bowled pretty well in Australia in 08 too.

Yes, they are all solid ones. His 2003-04 performance was remarkable though and notches higher.
Ashwin/ Jadeja do not have series like that abroad. Neither would they in the future. They have decent series like the above mentioned ones though

However, it doesn't feel right to rate someone based on just his best performances like many do with Kumble. Pretty sure you rate Ashwin higher too, as a bowler alone.

 

[subshakerz]

Agree but you've been clear that you factor in declines so if he averages 20s for another 4 years and ends with an average of 43 or something you'd have to downgrade him below vvs by your own logic

If he averages 20s for four years and doesnt have the self respect to leave the side, he doesn't belong in India's third XI.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes, they are all solid ones. His 2003-04 performance was remarkable though and notches higher.
Ashwin/ Jadeja do not have series like that abroad. Neither would they in the future. They have decent series like the above mentioned ones though

However, it doesn't feel right to rate someone based on just his best performances like many do with Kumble. Pretty sure you rate Ashwin higher too, as a bowler alone.

The problem is that Ashwin has virtually no standout high-yield match performances in SENA. Averaging 30ish with little wickets doesn't do much to help India.

He best was Australia in 2021 where he was impressive in setting it up for India but even that was short of what Kumble has done.

Kumble had a key role in victories in England and 44 wickets in 7 games in Australia in the 2000s.

 

[Xix2565]

Hard to standout when most of the conditions aren't made suitable anyway for Indian spin nowadays. But we'll keep ignoring that because it's inconvenient to acknowledge that.

 

[subshakerz]

Hard to standout when most of the conditions aren't made suitable anyway for Indian spin nowadays. But we'll keep ignoring that because it's inconvenient to acknowledge that.

Only Aussies are allowed to complain about pitch conditions