From Rabble to Glory - Players and Teams that started off crap but got much better

[Mr Miyagi]

You can, but you shouldn't.

Say it was Aus of the 2010s with a number 6 barely averaging 40 (or less) then sure, get Cairns in there, because you don't really lose much in the batting department.

If you're taking out Ponting, Martyn, Clarke or Hussey who are averaging 50+ for most of their careers? Not a chance. That Aus team never really needed a 5th bowler anyway.

Didn't need a 5th bowler, but yet they kept playing Watto (and possibly Symonds too) because they wanted a 5th bowler.

I think it comes to the pitch conditions - on turning pitches (or teams scared of leg spinners ) I think Bambino has a point.
For normal Aus conditions, I think yours is persuasive.

 

[Borges]

All teams need a fifth bowler of some kind.

 

[the big bambino]

**** no. You lose a lot more by replacing Martyn with Cairns than you gain by having him as a 5th bowler. A lot more.

If Cairns plays in that Aus team it's as a 3rd seamer.

edit: IMO. Didn't intend to sound so harsh lol

Yeah, no, maybe ... Look I'm not totally sold on my selection but I think it can be considered. Gilly being such a good back stop at 7 opens up the possibility imo.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

All teams need a fifth bowler of some kind.

Depends on the talent available. I'm kind of a fan of the four prong attacks myself to be honest. But it gets difficult when playing two spinners to do.

Though I am content with CdG for NZC now after Anderson frustrated me no end.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Didn't need a 5th bowler, but yet they kept playing Watto (and possibly Symonds too) because they wanted a 5th bowler.

I think it comes to the pitch conditions - on turning pitches (or teams scared of leg spinners ) I think Bambino has a point.
For normal Aus conditions, I think yours is persuasive.

Watto and Symonds didn't even really come into the team until it was already on the downswing.

Watto only played a few games in 2005/06 but then nothing until 2008/09. Symonds was mostly playing as a batsman anyway but did some handy bowling I'd give you that. But by picking Symonds at no. 6 they still weren't really losing much because he was close enough to the best 7 bats in the country anyway (+ his fielding was a big bonus).

Definitely reasonable to suggest for the odd Sydney test to have a 5th bowler with Warne and MacGill playing though. Tough choice though would have been who to leave out. I doubt if all of Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Waughs, Martyn and Gilchrist etc were all fit that Cairns would have fit in.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

Watto and Symonds didn't even really come into the team until it was already on the downswing.

Watto only played a few games in 2005/06 but then nothing until 2008/09. Symonds was mostly playing as a batsman anyway but did some handy bowling I'd give you that. But by picking Symonds at no. 6 they still weren't really losing much because he was close enough to the best 7 bats in the country anyway (+ his fielding was a big bonus).

Definitely reasonable to suggest for the odd Sydney test to have a 5th bowler with Warne and MacGill playing though. Tough choice though would have been who to leave out. I doubt if all of Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Waughs, Martyn and Gilchrist etc were all fit that Cairns would have fit in.

Yeah - I agree wtih you for all times bar two spinners, then I agree with Bambino.

It is totally down to the pitch (and a lil bit about the opposition) for mine.

 

[TheJediBrah]

I wonder who you'd drop. Mark Waugh? Lehmann? Wouldn't have been an easy choice.

Mark Waugh probably the lowest-averaging of the regulars between late-90s and 2008ish but it's hard to imagine him being left out

 

[the big bambino]

I wonder who you'd drop. Mark Waugh? Lehmann? Wouldn't have been an easy choice.

Mark Waugh probably the lowest-averaging of the regulars between late-90s and 2008ish but it's hard to imagine him being left out

From Burgey's side; Martyn. It is tough but I can't bat Cairns higher than 6 so whoever is in that slot would go. Then again if we're playing in SL or India I think I'd chop someone else or just say its too hard and leave out Cairns. Then again Warne struggled against India so Cairns comes back into consideration again. In that case maybe leave Waugh out but I'd hate to do that as he's a favourite of mine.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

From Burgey's side; Martyn. It is tough but I can't bat Cairns higher than 6 so whoever is in that slot would go. Then again if we're playing in SL or India I think I'd chop someone else or just say its too hard and leave out Cairns. Then again Warne struggled against India so Cairns comes back into consideration again. In that case maybe leave Waugh out but I'd hate to do that as he's a favourite of mine.

I'd slot him straight into 8 in that team, Warne to 9:

Slater
Taylor
Ponting
Waugh
Waugh
Martyn
Gilchrist
Warne
Bichel/ Fleming/ Lee <<<<
Gillespie
McGrath

Gets trickier for the two spinners.

 

[TheJediBrah]

From Burgey's side; Martyn. It is tough but I can't bat Cairns higher than 6 so whoever is in that slot would go. Then again if we're playing in SL or India I think I'd chop someone else or just say its too hard and leave out Cairns. Then again Warne struggled against India so Cairns comes back into consideration again. In that case maybe leave Waugh out but I'd hate to do that as he's a favourite of mine.

If it's Martyn from 1999 or later that is harsh af, the guy averaged 60 from 1999-2003 and could have been in a World XI team

If it's the kid Martyn from 1994 though or whenever he was when he lost a Test against SA then sure **** him off

 

[TheJediBrah]

Burgey's team is mixing eras there. Ponting didn't go up to 3 until Taylor was retired for like 2 years

just sayin. He probably just went with Taylor and Slater instead of Langer and Haydos because they're nsw boys

 

[Flem274*]

stop bringing nz into everything miyagi and getting into passive aggressive slap flights with everyone. you're a cringeworthy embarrassment. the shane jones of cricket posting.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

stop bringing nz into everything miyagi and getting into passive aggressive slap flights with everyone. you're a cringeworthy embarrassment. the shane jones of cricket posting.

Thanks for the unsolicited advice and opinion Flem, I am sure this post is in no way you getting into a passive aggresive slap fight with me and I will be sure to give it the due weight it deserves from a former moderator and someone who didn't who didn't author this thread.

Take care of yourself,

Miyagi

 

[Flem274*]

Thanks for the unsolicited advice and opinion Flem, I am sure this post is in no way you getting into a passive aggresive slap fight with me and I will be sure to give it the due weight it deserves from a former moderator and someone who didn't who didn't author this thread.

Take care of yourself,

Miyagi

this is dripping of 'why don't girls talk to me?'

and thanks, i always endeavor to take good care of myself. been eating a lot more fruit every day since i'm reaching an age where the youth diet will start to catch up with me.

 

[cnerd123]

Inb4 comments on how modern day fruit is basically candy

 

[Mr Miyagi]

this is dripping of 'why don't girls talk to me?'

and thanks, i always endeavor to take good care of myself. been eating a lot more fruit every day since i'm reaching an age where the youth diet will start to catch up with me.

Quality, on topic cricket posting. Exceptional Flem - I am proud of you.

 

[GotSpin]

The NSW team has the better top order and middle order. The rest of Oceania team's top order really became effective in the 00s. Astle-Martyn-Lehman looks better but the Waughs were probably better in the 90s specifically. This is actually very interesting. An NSW all time XI is as good as and even better than any other national atg side too.

Ponting was carving up Shield attacks though

NSW All time XI has Bradman so yeah I'd say it would be one of the best

 

[Flem274*]

Quality, on topic cricket posting. Exceptional Flem - I am proud of you.

no you're not lol you want to do your nut at me and half the forum but you don't have the nerve for whatever reason.

 

[trundler]

Ponting was carving up Shield attacks though

NSW All time XI has Bradman so yeah I'd say it would be one of the best

As well as Trumper, Morris, Mcgrath, O'Reilly and more. Beats any country except maybe WI.

 

[Mr Miyagi]

no you're not lol you want to do your nut at me and half the forum but you don't have the nerve for whatever reason.

Lol - you have totally yourself overestimated in my perception, you're not even on my radar, and I enjoy most the forum users.

What's wrong Flem? Are you cranky?