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First Off-spinner (in a half sleeve shirt) in years to take 300 test wickets...

OverratedSanity

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Dravid is ATG, as is Sanga

Younis Khan is squarely, undoubtedly, a ATVG. He would be the poster boy for it.
Younis is every bit as great as them. Piled on the runs for a decade and a half, proved himself overseas, took his team to number 1, did it all.

Anyone who rates Younis in the same tier as Kevin ****ing Pietersen and Sehwag needs a kick up the bum.
 
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OverratedSanity

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The ceiling for Ashwin is that he has a chance to be India's greatest spinner. That's a pretty great accomplishment but even that requires some good overseas performances of note which guys like Kumble and Chandra had. Expecting him to end up as great as Murali/Warne is just totally unrealistic
 

cnerd123

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India has had a lot of ATVG spinners but surprisingly no ATG ones. Kumble, Chandra, Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat, Bhajji...

We're due an ATG at some point.
 

vcs

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Younis is every bit as great as them. Piled on the runs for a decade and a half, proved himself overseas, took his team to number 1, did it all.

Anyone who rates Younis in the same tier as Kevin ****ing Pietersen and Sehwag needs a kick up the bum.
Nah, he just hasn't done enough to be put with Dravid/Kallis/Sanga.

It isn't his fault, given Pakistan's scheduling and them having to play on dead tracks in UAE, but it is what it is. Hasn't had enough opportunities to bat in pace-friendly conditions to rate him alongside those guys.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
India has had a lot of ATVG spinners but surprisingly no ATG ones. Kumble, Chandra, Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat, Bhajji...

We're due an ATG at some point.
Statistically they've been due a quality fast bowler at some stage as well...
 

OverratedSanity

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Nah, he just hasn't done enough to be put with Dravid/Kallis/Sanga.

It isn't his fault, given Pakistan's scheduling and them having to play on dead tracks in UAE, but it is what it is. Hasn't had enough opportunities to bat in pace-friendly conditions to rate him alongside those guys.
I mean yeah, his overall overseas record isn't as impressive as Dravid's or Kallis' but he still did pretty great in his few opportunities. Scored a match winning double in England (where Kallis was pretty much always rubbish) and scored a high quality ton in Australia (where Dravid was pretty meh) against a very strong attack. And he did that when he was 38 (unofficially probably 40+). It's not like Dravid and Kallis and Sanga had spotless overseas records or anything.
 
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Daemon

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Haha of all the different names we've had for tiers (God Tier, Diamond, Gold, Tier 1 etc) ATVG is the best.
 

shankar

International Debutant
Cool. We’ll take out the test where he bowled his team to a win to make it an even contest then.

I mean, India’s bowlers took 12 wickets between them that test.
So you believe that the Adelaide wicket didn't offer significantly more turn than the rest of the wickets in the series? If you do then why did Lyon average significantly higher during the rest of the series? If not, how do you fairly compare his performance who didn't get to bowl on that wicket?
 

Victor Ian

International Coach
So is Ashwin over his injuries? It was sad that he 'conveniently' sustained an injury throughout his previous shootout with Lyon. I'd like to see him get back to taking lots of wickets and scoring lots of runs.
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
So is Ashwin over his injuries? It was sad that he 'conveniently' sustained an injury throughout his previous shootout with Lyon. I'd like to see him get back to taking lots of wickets and scoring lots of runs.
He didn't want to embarrass Lyon, he is pretty intelligent that way.
 

OverratedSanity

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Lyon barely outbowled a half fit, exhausted Ashwin ravaged by sports hernia. Imagine what would have happened if he was at 100%. He wanted to give the viewers a gripping series to reinforce everyone's faith in test cricket. Hero.
 

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