Finger spinner success and allowing chucking

[Starfighter]

Okay, I kew this might set off a storm of stupidity. Please be sensible.

Does anyone remember about eight to ten years ago, especially when they had that crackdown on throwing bowlers, that some people (granted, I think more in the Cricinfo comments section than anyone authoritative) said they would have to allow a lot more throwing?

The gist of the argument was, that with pitches so batting friendly and with batsmen so good at hitting, they would have to allow up to 30° of bending (or some other convenient number) to offset this. This argument seemed to be especially advanced when it became apparent that pretty much no-one could bowl the doosra legally.

Now there might be some room for this argument in ODIs,and T20s, where leg spinners have definitely been in the ascendency in recent years due to their greater variety. But this being CricketWeb, and me being me, I'm talking specifically about tests.

Over the past decade (to this date) four of the top ten wicket takers have been finger spinners, as have been ten of the 35 to have taken over 100 test wickets. In comparison there has been only one leg spinner. Ashwin and Jadeja have taken their wickets at averages not seen since the predominance of covered pitches. Have pitches been more spin friendly? Of course they have, but that would only go against the idea that more elbow bend is needed. And I don't think anyone would have predicted that Australia's leading wicket taker of the period (indeed, leading wicket taker overall in the past ten years to date) would be a balding groundsman bowling offbreaks with barely even a hint of variation. And that in general the first choice spinners for most countries would be finger spinners of the non-'mystery' variety.

Maybe the frequency of such arguments was overblown in my mind. But it's quite conspicuous that in tests finger spin is alive and well (and even thriving in some places) while the doosra is practically extinct and dodgy actions are thankfully rarer than a decade ago. So it's funny to think back on those comments that I used to read.

 

[Gob]

ok

 

[Sunil1z]

Finger spinners have done well in Test but have gone nearly extinct in ODI/T20 .

 

[Howe_zat]

ok

****ing lame. What did you want, for them to finish polls on Kohli v everyone else before starting a thread with effort? Christ

 

[trundler]

Maharaj, Leach and Harmer are well above the mean for what their countries historically produce too. Also, gotta say Saqlain's doosra always looked sus to me.

Think what the OP recalls is mostly about Ajmal and the persecution complex around his banning.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I dislike that the doosra seems to have been phased out and bowlers are discouraged from bowling it. It was a more entertaining form of spin ****ery than the current meta of producing dustbowls (mainly India).

I'd have preferred the ICC ramped up with better testing methods so that we atleast in theory had the doosra in circulation but those who exceeded the limit would be told to bin it. Now, can anyone even bowl it legally within the 15 degrees of whatever, I don't know, probably barely anyone . But if anything it makes it more lame that the ICC continues to cheap out on testing methods and a fun (though controversial) delivery flat out isn't bowled any more .

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

I remember a few seasons before the Crack down..Ajmal was a God , when he brought out the Theesra that was the last straw for ICC lol

 

[honestbharani]

I think the point of the whole thing was that a limit had to be set at some level. I never had a problem if the limit were to be made 20 or 25 degrees, for example, as long as some fair and unbiased thought and effort had been put into it with the game as the prime consideration.

I frankly do think the Doosra should be allowed at least in LO cricket. In fact, ban both switch hitting and doosras in tests, but allow them in the LOs. It might be more fun that way.

 

[Migara]

I remember a few seasons before the Crack down..Ajmal was a God , when he brought out the Theesra that was the last straw for ICC lol

Actually it was a non - spinning ball. Probably the least suspect one.

 

[Migara]

Ascendency of finger spin happened in India. Rest of the world the averages of top bracket finger spinners hasn't changed much.

Are current Indian finger spinners that good? Probably not. Pitches may be all time best for spinners.

 

[Starfighter]

Think what the OP recalls is mostly about Ajmal and the persecution complex around his banning.

No I remember it happening even before that, though it was certainly most prominent then.

 

[Burgey]

Over the past decade (to this date) four of the top ten wicket takers have been finger spinners, as have been ten of the 35 to have taken over 100 test wickets. In comparison there has been only one leg spinner. Ashwin and Jadeja have taken their wickets at averages not seen since the predominance of covered pitches. Have pitches been more spin friendly? Of course they have, but that would only go against the idea that more elbow bend is needed. And I don't think anyone would have predicted that Australia's leading wicket taker of the period (indeed, leading wicket taker overall in the past ten years to date) would be a balding groundsman bowling offbreaks with barely even a hint of variation. And that in general the first choice spinners for most countries would be finger spinners of the non-'mystery' variety.

Think DRS has a fair bit to do with this too. @Spark has posted on the uptick in LBWs for spinners compared with pacers over the past few years.

I think it's a travesty, tbh. Takes the game backwards and basically reinforces it's a sport for unfit tubs of lard who can just walk up, roll the arm over with minimal fitness or effort and get rewards. Takes athleticism and the physical threat out of the game, returning it to a time when blokes bowled in top hats and bow ties. Any able bodied human can bowl finger spin and land it. There's so little skill and athleticism involved in it that it takes the game back to pre-WW1 areas.

That pitches and playing conditions via DRS actually encourage it is quaint but retrograde step. While every other sport advances, cricket decides to take itself miles backwards.

 

[Burgey]

OK

 

[the big bambino]

Inclined to think cricket is pretty healthy when spin bowling is taking it's share of wickets and I'm enjoying their success. Even the current series in India. I don't think its just India. NZ have Ajaz and maybe one day will think of even playing him. In Australia we've been used to guys like Doherty and Beer but now have Murphy, Kuhnemann, Rocchicioli, Manenti and even Chris Green. All of them so much better than our recent no.2, Agar.

I think pitches have encouraged their success and I don't think that's unfair. Cricket fans seem to turn up their noses at any pitch that doesn't offer a bit of sideways and bounce - basically a bias in favour of seam up. The sort of pitches in India is a fair change up. Perhaps batting techniques have been deficient in combatting spin, especially in helpful conditions. I think that would explain spin's success moreso than drs. What drs has shown though is that spinners have been diddled compared to pace bowlers. If it evens things up in respect of lbws then that's only fair. Overall though I just think it's an era thing and we've had a good bunch of finger spinners lately.

 

[Bahnz]

Fingerspin is piss enabled by **** pitches. Joe Root would have 400 test wickets if he'd been born in India and when people pointed to his overseas stats you'd have smug stats nerds scoffing "Oh you can't discount a bowler for how they do away from home, that's unfair."

Ravindra Jadeja as the 30th best bowler of all time. FFS DOG, get your **** together.

 

[Flem274*]

Fingerspin is piss enabled by **** pitches. Joe Root would have 400 test wickets if he'd been born in India and when people pointed to his overseas stats you'd have smug stats nerds scoffing "Oh you can't discount a bowler for how they do away from home, that's unfair."

Ravindra Jadeja as the 30th best bowler of all time. FFS DOG, get your **** together.

Wrong account Burgey, but good to see you're a world weary Wellingtonian* in another life.

*which basically makes you a spiritual Melbournite.

 

[honestbharani]

Fingerspin is piss enabled by **** pitches. Joe Root would have 400 test wickets if he'd been born in India and when people pointed to his overseas stats you'd have smug stats nerds scoffing "Oh you can't discount a bowler for how they do away from home, that's unfair."

Ravindra Jadeja as the 30th best bowler of all time. FFS DOG, get your **** together.

He should obviously be #1

 

[_00_deathscar]

Wrong account Burgey, but good to see you're a world weary Wellingtonian* in another life.

*which basically makes you a spiritual Melbournite.

Ironically, Burgey (finally) rates Jadeja quite highly (now).

 

[shortpitched713]

You don't have to throw to be a good bowler, of any variety. Also, if finger-spin bowling (or even spin bowling altogether) were to hypothetically go extinct, then I say let it burn.

 

[Ali TT]

Wow, such antipathy towards the twirlers. As an England fan, I've seen four right arm mediums chugging away ineffectively on a lnl at 80mph more than I'd care, so I always welcome the variety a spinner can bring. Saying that, there's a big difference in terms of enjoyment between an attacking spinner like Swann, Ashwin or Yasir than attritional ones like Axar or Leach.