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GotSpin

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Does he have a point?Apart from turning every thread into something about FTBs?

McGrath is not someone you can replace,legendary team or not-and it showed in that series.

Anyway,AFAIC Gilly is no FTB and a definite ATG of the game.
Think he tried to put across that he doesn't ignore a series win if a player goes down in a team that has tremendous bench strength. But he does when that said player is the heart of the team
 

GotSpin

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Does he have a point?Apart from turning every thread into something about FTBs?

McGrath is not someone you can replace,legendary team or not-and it showed in that series.

Anyway,AFAIC Gilly is no FTB and a definite ATG of the game.
I think his technique definitely got exploited from 2005 onwards. But I still don't consider him a FTB.
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Kaspa and Gillespie in 2005 were not "world class bench strength".

This is why placing value on name only doesn't work. Kaspa and Gillespie were absolute poo in 2005. There's no denying that really.
 

GotSpin

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Kaspa and Gillespie in 2005 were not "world class bench strength".

This is why placing value on name only doesn't work. Kaspa and Gillespie were absolute poo in 2005. There's no denying that really.
it's not my argument to make.

I'm not even sure if a series was played in 2005
 

four_or_six

Cricketer Of The Year
Okay i just told you only great teams with great bench strenght can be expected to lift & maintain the same standard of performance they would normally have when they lose key/main players in general.

Then you reply here my telling me this a double standard because in the test ENG lost, McGrath didn't play.

Something between your left ear & right year is missing without a doubt.
Aussie, refrain from insulting other posters. Any more of this will be deleted.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Kaspa and Gillespie in 2005 were not "world class bench strength".

This is why placing value on name only doesn't work. Kaspa and Gillespie were absolute poo in 2005. There's no denying that really.
In general Kasper & Gillespe were part of the main playing XI ATT. Of course Lee started the Ashes & thus Kasper was the back-up after McGrath got injured. Kasper certainly went in the Ashes in world class test form, given he was having the year of life. He ended up being poo in the Ashes of course.

Gillespie's form had slighly dropped off during the 04/05 home summer before the Ashes after his superb series in IND 04. But of course no one expected him to plummit to level he ended up in the Ashes.
 

aussie

Hall of Fame Member
Think he tried to put across that he doesn't ignore a series win if a player goes down in a team that has tremendous bench strength. But he does when that said player is the heart of the team
Heartbeat of the team in a non-ATG great that doesn't have tremedous bench strenght actually. But the non-bolded part is correct.

An example of the bolded would the current SA team with Steyn. They lose him 2moro for a test/test series especially againts a solid/strong batting opposition as was shown last winter vs ENG, the potency of SA attack goes down considerably.
 

GotSpin

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Can someone put forward a modern definition, and example/s, of a FTB?
ehhh...think a few people would get a little sensitive if I did...But I think Home Track Bullys are worse. And there are a number of them
 

GotSpin

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
C'mon be a man, define FTB, and then name some modern examples damnit! :tongue:
Well I'd loosely define a FTB as a batsmen who tends to score heavily on batsmen friendly wickets against lesser attacks while then turning around and failing on wickets that tend to favour the bowler.

Obviously there's lots of problems with this general definition. If a batsmen dominates an attack are they inherently mediocre and the track is flat then? Or once a batsmen fails is the track friendly and the bowling attack strong?

I
 

sifter132

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
Can someone put forward a modern definition, and example/s, of a FTB?
I think Sehwag is the obvious one at present. His average in the first innings of a match is more than double what it is in the second (almost 70 in the 1st, about 30 in the 2nd). So he obviously struggles with a deteriorating wicket (or he just gets bored after more than 2-3 days :laugh:). He also hasn't scored many runs in tough venues eg. South Africa, England, New Zealand. Some will say 'yeah but he made runs in Australia'. True, but it was against a McWarne-less Australia in 03/04 flaying Brad Williams, Andy Bichel and Nathan Bracken around... and he played well in Adelaide in 2008 - but that's the easiest pitch to bat on in the country, and again McGrath and Warne were both retired by then.
 
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Ruckus

International Captain
Well I'd loosely define a FTB as a batsmen who tends to score heavily on batsmen friendly wickets against lesser attacks while then turning around and failing on wickets that tend to favour the bowler.

Obviously there's lots of problems with this general definition. If a batsmen dominates an attack are they inherently mediocre and the track is flat then? Or once a batsmen fails is the track friendly and the bowling attack strong?

I
I don't think either is true really. I think that if one player made a large score, but the rest of his team got out for <10, even that can't be used as evidence that the player scored on a tough wicket. The bowling could have been superb (bowling still can be superb on roads) or the rest of the team simply got themselves out. The only way to know is by observation, which probably highlights the biggest flaw with using mere stats to determine whether someone is a FTB or not. For e.g., most players have only played a few matches in most countries. If a certain player averages >50 in, say, England over 5 or so matches, I don't think you can conclude that player is necessarily adept at playing swing. There are plenty of times in England where swing is not even an issue, and the player could have been lucky enough to play in England when that was the case.

So, once again, I think the only proper way to know if a player is a FTB is through observation. That being said, I would have to say Sehwag is pretty close to a FTB. He hasn't played many knocks against swing where has looked very comfortable at all.
 

G.I.Joe

International Coach
If it wasn't McGrath and Warne bowling at Sehwag at Chennai in 04, I don't know who they were.
 

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