Erroneous revisionism that needs to be corrected

[trundler]

Every year since his retirement, McGrath's speed has been retrospectively increased at a rate of 2 mph per year. In a few years he'll be Bond. My favourite bowler ever but let's not make him into something he wasn't.

Every now and then people try to cover up Anderson's abysmal record away from him with disingenuous phrases like 'skilled toiler'. That's passing off a limitation I.e an inability to pick up wickets away from home as an ability with the use of soft language. What kind of differently abled level of bull**** is that? It's a handicap. A great bowler at home but he's vegan Peter Siddle level away from home. Unless you buy the Langer view of Siddle, you're being dishonest. Come on. 10 years from now some drafter will dig up Anderson's averages away from home and cry about how unfairly underrated he is. No ****, he failed to step up.

Also, Ponting wasn't 'out of form' for all 32 or whatever matches he played in India. He was just ****ing woeful in India. Making excuses doesn't change that. That's a big enough sample size. Cop it and move on. Same with Warne in India.


You must've gotten a fair idea of what this thread is about. Retrospectively dishonest opinions, that is.

 

[fredfertang]

It's an age thing trundler - for example I now believe and always maintain that David Gower was one of the finest batsmen I ever saw, but have had it pointed out to me several times that in my youth I would much more often moan about him than praise him

 

[trundler]

It's an age thing trundler - for example I now believe and always maintain that David Gower was one of the finest batsmen I ever saw, but have had it pointed out to me several times that in my youth I would much more often moan about him than praise him

Ha, that's a top notch example Fred! Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind.

 

[fredfertang]

It works the other way too sometimes, like in the case of John Snow who, until he was gone, I for one never really appreciated

 

[trundler]

I certainly regret not appreciating Younis Khan enough whilst he was around. Never really fully took in how immense he was for Pakistan cricket.

 

[fredfertang]

I certainly regret not appreciating Younis Khan enough whilst he was around. Never really fully took in how immense he was for Pakistan cricket.

Yes, I know what you mean - I always thought he scored the runs he did despite rather than because of that slightly odd and rather ungainly technique, but then I really enjoyed that double hundred he made at the Oval in 2016

 

[Red]

People are adding 2mph to McGrath a year? I didn't realise that.

I thought most people were just correctly asserting that he was the greatest quick of all time, along with MM.

As for Ponting and Warne in India, I think even the most parochial Australians will happily concede they did poorly there, and also that a large contributing factor to that is Indian pitches are slow and these guys relied on quicker and bouncier Australian wickets as a big part of their games.

 

[trundler]

People are adding 2mph to McGrath a year? I didn't realise that.

I thought most people were just correctly asserting that he was the greatest quick of all time, along with MM.

As for Ponting and Warne in India, I think even the most parochial Australians will happily concede they did poorly there, and also that a large contributing factor to that is Indian pitches are slow and these guys relied on quicker and bouncier Australian wickets as a big part of their games.

Haaaaaave you met Stephen and TJB

 

[Burgey]

What about the revisionist history that has the Windies teams of the 80s universally loved by fans all around the world because they were so lovely? **** that, they were a pack of arrogant ****s, albeit justifiably arrogant ****s.

 

[trundler]

What about the revisionist history that has the Windies teams of the 80s universally loved by fans all around the world because they were so lovely? **** that, they were a pack of arrogant ****s, albeit justifiably arrogant ****s.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Exactly this sort of thing. This is very clear just from watching extended highlights. Just simply untrue.

 

[Flem274*]

the 80s windies only bowled bouncers

no they didn't. i've watched some spells of these blokes and while there were some bouncers, they bowled like normal atgs do. just reeks of retired batsmen trying to simultaneously pump themselves up and slightly talk down the skill levels of the windies as tho they used some kind of cheat code.

 

[stephen]

Haaaaaave you met Stephen and TJB

Nobody denies that Warne had a rubbish record vs India. It's only whether that's a true reflection of his ability or if there might have been other contributing factors. In truth it's a little of both.

 

[trundler]

Watching highlights of the Gabba test from 88/89 and Ian Chappell on commentary literally says about Marshall "at those speeds he can swing it both ways which is very difficult to deal with. If you're a batsman you should be able to file a complaint against that". It's insane how good he was. He was express pace for most of his career and was getting it to hoop round corners on an Australian road. Insane skill. Had some difficulty with controlling it early on but then he settled into a Steyn-like rhythm. It's incredible. Express pace, could swing it anywhere, bowl in the corridor and a nasty, nasty bouncer. Great entertainment too.

So yes, it would be some bull**** revisionism to say that about the Windies pacers when the commentators at the time were in awe of their skill.

 

[trundler]

I'd like to know what those who saw Marshall think about this. What would you reckon was his normal mode of attack? My impression is that during the early to mid 80s he was frighteningly quick and more of a tearaway who rushed the batsmen and intimidated them. Around 88 he reinvented himself with age as great players do and became more of a pitch it up swing bowler but at a speed resembling Cummins with a diverse bag of tricks to unsettle batsmen. How wrong am I?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

I saw a lot of the Windies in the flesh throughout the 80’s in England and it was amazing to watch if not to play against. Watching on TV is not the same at all. On the mid 80’s tour of the the Caribbean the wickets were uneven and quite dangerous at times. That’s where the likes of Gower, Botham, Lamb and Gatting were scarred for life. Gatting had a bit of his nose left on the ball after being hit by Marshall.

 

[Burgey]

Marshall was really quick but he was skilful from the first time I saw him here in the early 80s. Lillee didn’t help by getting him in the Nets on an early tour out here and teaching him how to bowl a leg cutter. I know there’s a fast bowler’s cartel but Fmd it isn’t as though he had nothing up to that point.

 

[trundler]

And Marshall passed his tricks on to Pollock, Akram and others. Sarfraz Nawaz is one bowler who tried to keep his discovery of reverse swing a secret. Only gave it up to Imran because IK wasn't playing any domestic cricket in Pakistan at the time.

 

[Burgey]

I saw a lot of the Windies in the flesh throughout the 80’s in England and it was amazing to watch if not to play against. Watching on TV is not the same at all. On the mid 80’s tour of the the Caribbean the wickets were uneven and quite dangerous at times. That’s where the likes of Gower, Botham, Lamb and Gatting were scarred for life. Gatting had a bit of his nose left on the ball after being hit by Marshall.

I remember the Gatting one. That was a shocker. Similar thing happened to a bloke facing Thomson in grade here in the early 70s. Ball took a piece of his ear off on its way through and it was attached to the ball when they picked it up after it went for four leg byes. Not fun

 

[trundler]

Christ, that cant be fully true? That's just morbid. I've seen the Gatting one. Well thank **** for helmets.

 

[Red]

Marshall was really quick but he was skilful from the first time I saw him here in the early 80s. Lillee didn’t help by getting him in the Nets on an early tour out here and teaching him how to bowl a leg cutter. I know there’s a fast bowler’s cartel but Fmd it isn’t as though he had nothing up to that point.

Always like these kind of stories but also imagine the Australian batsmen going "Oh, ffs Dennis".