EPL Twenty20

[zaremba]

Are you seriously suggesting that the presence of players of the calibre of Glenn McGrath and Shane Warne in the IPL, despite the fact that it's a Twenty20 tournament, had absolutely no positive effect on the young Indian players they shared a dressing room with for 2 months? If I was a young Indian seamer, I would have killed for the chance to play for Delhi, simply for the experience of sharing a dressing room with McGrath, and learning from one of the games all time greats. Now imagine McGrath had been signed by the London Lions in the EPL - of course that would be of enormous benefit to any young English seamers who happened to be signed by that franchise.

Yes overseas players certainly can have a great influence.

However this has nothing whatsoever to do with introducing franchises though. McGrath could be signed by the London Lions, MK SuperCricket Dons, or whichever other soulless synthetic commercial creation you want to imagine. But he could equally well play for, say, Middlesex or Worcestershire, as of course he has done in the past. And if he's still playing next year, I'd imagine a county side will sign him for the EPL.

Ditto Warne at Hants; Lara at Warwickshire; the list goes on, and includes just about every single great player from the present and recent past.

I find it baffling that people think that the most sensible way to increase the game's appeal and support is to delete the teams which actually have a supporter base, and then to replace them with teams without any supporters.

 

[zaremba]

If these players want to talk to old players, nothing stops them doing so. People make too much of a deal out of playing together. It's quite possible to seek an old cricketer out and have a word, people do it all the time. You just don't hear so much about it as you do when they happen to have shared a dressing-room, because those in the press notice it more then.

I agree with some of your post but not this. You understate the role of the senior overseas pro within a dressing room. I know that you can guess which name I'm going to throw at you, because you know that I'm a Sussex supporter. The influence that he has had on the players, the team, and the club as a whole is enormous.

And my point is that he doesn't need to be signed for the Southampton Snakes or the South London Slugs in order to have that effect.

 

[Richard]

I agree with some of your post but not this. You understate the role of the senior overseas pro within a dressing room. I know that you can guess which name I'm going to throw at you, because you know that I'm a Sussex supporter. The influence that he has had on the players, the team, and the club as a whole is enormous.

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Mushtaq's presence in the Sussex dressing-room makes them a better team (and ditto for any number of other teams down the years).

The point, though, is that say Will Beer goes on to become England's greatest wristspinner and Mushtaq's tutelage helped with him - he could have gone and spoken to Mushtaq, or Warne, or anyone else around, if he'd wanted to, and well-minded young cricketers do this all the time. They don't have to be team-mates.

 

[zaremba]

Oh, I don't doubt for a second that Mushtaq's presence in the Sussex dressing-room makes them a better team (and ditto for any number of other teams down the years).

The point, though, is that say Will Beer goes on to become England's greatest wristspinner and Mushtaq's tutelage helped with him - he could have gone and spoken to Mushtaq, or Warne, or anyone else around, if he'd wanted to, and well-minded young cricketers do this all the time. They don't have to be team-mates.

Hmm. Yes of course he could have spoken to Mushy or Warne and you're right, players do this sort of thing all the time. Players like Mushy and Warne are generous souls and will help willingly and generously. But that's no substitute for being in the dressing room and in the nets with them on a full-time basis right through the pre-season and the season itself. There's a real difference there, as I'm sure you'd accept.

 

[unccricket]

with all the IPLs EPLs and who knows what else, these countries better start churning out top level cricketers by the hundreds.

no one wants to see a mediocre contest between teams with mediocre talent and i think that's the problem with all these leagues. the IPL was a success because of talent and the level of competition (barring bangalore and hyderabad - even though they had talent). unless these same players are going to play in the EPL, I can't see how it would have the same level of talent.

if the same players do somehow enter the EPL, it would be completely bizarre - something akin to watching C. Ronaldo suit up for Manchester United until april before playing in the MLS for 6 weeks and then in Australia or whatever for a couple weeks if he wants to- makes no sense at all from a league or team perspective.

I also agree with major sentiment that there is no place for two domestic t20 comps in a single season, would rather just have one long competition that lasts the entire season.

 

[zaremba]

if the same players do somehow enter the EPL, it would be completely bizarre - something akin to watching C. Ronaldo suit up for Manchester United until april before playing in the MLS for 6 weeks and then in Australia or whatever for a couple weeks if he wants to- makes no sense at all from a league or team perspective.

Unlike in football, this happens already in cricket, with players playing for different state or county teams, or franchises, at different times of the year.

 

[unccricket]

yeah and i don't agree it with it. its one thing if you are an international player who doesn't ever play for your domestic side signs up to play county cricket.

its another for someone to play in one t20 competition for their home side and play 2 months later for the "big money" in one of these premier leagues. to me, that presents a conflict of interest.

my point is that domestic cricket needs a huge money pool from which to increase the pay scale of all forms of the game (especially first class). this way you not only bring the best talent (like the IPL), but produce highly competitive and entertaining matches.

i mean, who doesn't want to see ishant sharma bowling full steam against sachin tendulkar at mumbai in a domestic match or for that matter brett lee against ponting. domestic cricket should be the financial mainstay and international cricket a treat to be savored - but that's another topic.

 

[zaremba]

domestic cricket needs a huge money pool from which to increase the pay scale of all forms of the game (especially first class). this way you not only bring the best talent (like the IPL), but produce highly competitive and entertaining matches.

Sadly highly competitive and entertaining matches will not, as a rule, be found in any Twenty20 competition.

Happily highly competitive and entertaining matches can be found regularly in Test cricket and in first class domestic cricket. There's usually plenty of room in the grounds too (except for English Test grounds which are usually packed with lemmings like me).

 

[honestbharani]

If these players want to talk to old players, nothing stops them doing so. People make too much of a deal out of playing together. It's quite possible to seek an old cricketer out and have a word, people do it all the time. You just don't hear so much about it as you do when they happen to have shared a dressing-room, because those in the press notice it more then.

That part is not fully valid. You can seek out stars and get advice but it will NEVER be the same as being in the same team as them, spending so many days in the nets and in matches with them around, you looking at how they go about stuff and them watching you and suggesting improvements.. Trust me, it is simply not the same. Being in the same team for a period of time, even just 25 days is a lot better than just seeking them out whenever you can and asking them questions.. The former is always better and more desirable from an emerging players' point of view.

 

[Goughy]

That part is not fully valid. You can seek out stars and get advice but it will NEVER be the same as being in the same team as them, spending so many days in the nets and in matches with them around, you looking at how they go about stuff and them watching you and suggesting improvements.. Trust me, it is simply not the same. Being in the same team for a period of time, even just 25 days is a lot better than just seeking them out whenever you can and asking them questions.. The former is always better and more desirable from an emerging players' point of view.

I think it completely depends on the players (both foreign and domestic).

Having the Worlds best player playing County cricket for generations has not noticably helped English players get better as a group, and that is playing every day for 6 months.

Some players like Richie Richardson helped players like Gough. That says a lot for the type of players both of them are are. One wants to learn and knows how to (key) and the other knew what he was talking about and found a player he wanted to give advice to.

Just playing with big names doesnt automatically help.

Too often the foreign player is disinterested in much apart from their performance and money, and having a high profile pro as a teammate allows the emerging player to slack off and take less responsibility.

Worst case scenario are self centered foreign players that are only there for the money and shy and lazy young players that feel the foreign players should be doing most of the hard work as they earn the big bucks and have the high profile.

Its a double edged sword. Not every overseas player can be a Richardson or a Warne and not every young player is wired right to learn from experienced guys.

 

[zaremba]

AWTA completely. The right overseas pro can be a huge influence, the wrong overseas pro can have zero influence, or even have a negative effect.

 

[Goughy]

AWTA completely. The right overseas pro can be a huge influence, the wrong overseas pro can have zero influence, or even have a negative effect.

That one fact has possibly done much to destroy West Indies cricket.

70s and 80s CC was awash with quality Island talent. Then late 80s and early 90s there were a few bad ones and it seemed that the attitude of many of the WI players changed and became far more selfish.

Result was that Counties stayed away from them and the old 'finishing school' of County cricket was no longer available to them.

 

[swede]

I think they have it got it about right. there is nothing wrong with two competitions when there is a very good reason for it and even less wrong when so very different teams will be fielded in the two comps.
June is also the right time to stage the EPL.

I only wish this june event would also be used to split the other forms of the game with the county championship beginning in july. It would be great for the real game to be staged over a shorter period of time and in warmer weather. 10 games in 11-12 weeks would be possible and thats enough. If a reserve day was added for lost overs, there would be just as much meaningful cricket as now


may: 50-over tournament

june: EPL

july-sep:
- weekdays: championship
- weekend: T20 cup

 

[honestbharani]

I think it completely depends on the players (both foreign and domestic).

Having the Worlds best player playing County cricket for generations has not noticably helped English players get better as a group, and that is playing every day for 6 months.

Some players like Richie Richardson helped players like Gough. That says a lot for the type of players both of them are are. One wants to learn and knows how to (key) and the other knew what he was talking about and found a player he wanted to give advice to.

Just playing with big names doesnt automatically help.

Too often the foreign player is disinterested in much apart from their performance and money, and having a high profile pro as a teammate allows the emerging player to slack off and take less responsibility.

Worst case scenario are self centered foreign players that are only there for the money and shy and lazy young players that feel the foreign players should be doing most of the hard work as they earn the big bucks and have the high profile.

Its a double edged sword. Not every overseas player can be a Richardson or a Warne and not every young player is wired right to learn from experienced guys.

yeah.. but I think my point is basically, with the right kind of international player, it is much better to have him on your side for a length of time and learn that way than to just seek him out once or twice and have words with him. I am sure a youngster will learn more doing the former. That was my point.


Obviously, the wrong kind of star player will always be to the detriment of any team that picks him as far as impact on youngsters is concerned. I guess that pretty much goes without saying and I do agree with that part.

 

[Goughy]

with the right kind of international player, it is much better to have him on your side for a length of time and learn that way than to just seek him out once or twice and have words with him. I am sure a youngster will learn more doing the former. That was my point.

I think that is a fair comment, though the combination of the right overseas pro and the right minded young domestic players is fairly rare