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England Squad to Tour SA

Neil Pickup

Cricket Web Moderator
If I had to have one man into the side if Freddy were out injured, I'd have more confidence in Colly taking a bigger bowling load than Bell.

Ideally, I'd have both in at the expense of Key, but that would mean a 17-man squad.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
But Collingwood is not exactly a frontline bowler while Bell did all that could have been asked of him in his Test debut, and is in better form.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
I'd rather Bell bowling a long spell, and I reckon he does deserve to be in the side - but so do Colly and (contrary to most people) I reckon Key does too.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
Neil Pickup said:
Ideally, I'd have both in at the expense of Key, but that would mean a 17-man squad.
Well Key scored more runs against the Windies than proven Test players like Thorpe, Vaughan, Trescothick and Strauss, so ...thats mindless.
 

Tom Halsey

International Coach
It's not mindless, as he did have technical problems (you seem to rely alot on numbers) but I generalyl agree that I'd like him in the squad.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
I think they should take a squad of 16 including:

MP Vaughan
ME Trescothick
AJ Strauss
IR Bell
RWT Key
GP Thorpe
MA Butcher
KP Pietersen
GO Jones
CMW Read
A Flintoff
SJ Harmison
MJ Hoggard
MJ Saggers
JM Anderson
AF Giles
 

Swervy

International Captain
a massive zebra said:
I think they should take a squad of 16 including:

MP Vaughan
ME Trescothick
AJ Strauss
IR Bell
RWT Key
GP Thorpe
MA Butcher
KP Pietersen
GO Jones
CMW Read
A Flintoff
SJ Harmison
MJ Hoggard
MJ Saggers
JM Anderson
AF Giles
thtas not a very balanced squad though with 8 batsmen,2 decent batting keepers,an all rounder who if his ankle plays up would probably bat but not bowl,4 pace bowlers (remember back to back tests!!!!) and ONE spinner.

If it were a 16 man sqaud (I thought it was 15 to be honest) I would take Saggers out put Jones in,take Pietersen out and put another pacer in (for me Mahmood would go)...and I would then decide over who out of Butcher/Key/Bell to leave out and stick another spinner in which I guess might be Batty

If worst came to worst and Flintoff couldnt play then Collingwood could come out...
 
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marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Tom Halsey said:
I'd rather Bell bowling a long spell, and I reckon he does deserve to be in the side - but so do Colly and (contrary to most people) I reckon Key does too.
The thought of Bell or Collingwood bowling a long spell makes me very worried to be honest.

Both are "200-2, try something different" bowlers at Test level IMO.
 

a massive zebra

International Captain
marc71178 said:
Ahead of Bell on what grounds?.
Scoring runs year after year for Notts. Not ahead of Bell because I would have them both. Bell's Test debut was exemplary. Two years ago you argued against the selection of Fulton because he did not have a good career record, and was just in good form. It could be argued that Bell does not have a great career record and is just in good form. Pietersen, meanwhile, scores runs year in year out.





marc71178 said:
So his poor Test figures can be overlooked?

As I've said all along, he's a good County bowler, but Test bowlers need something more.
His figures are better than Simon Jones, 3 matches is not really enough to write a player off, and he took a wicket with his first ball in England and is a proven wicket taker in county cricket.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
Im sick of all this Collingwood bagging.

Hes deserved to play test cricket for a while now.

I dont rate his bowling very much, but its certainly better than Bell's, and I rate their batting equally.
 

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
a massive zebra said:
Not ahead of Bell because I would have them both.
Yes, I missed his name in your list :wacko:



a massive zebra said:
His figures are better than Simon Jones, 3 matches is not really enough to write a player off, and he took a wicket with his first ball in England and is a proven wicket taker in county cricket.
Proven wicket-taker in county cricket - that means nothing in Tests - a wicket taking ball in CC is not a wicket-taking ball in INternationals.
 

superkingdave

Hall of Fame Member
Prince EWS said:
Im sick of all this Collingwood bagging.

Hes deserved to play test cricket for a while now.

I dont rate his bowling very much, but its certainly better than Bell's, and I rate their batting equally.
Bell's batting is at least one maybe two classes above collingwood IMO and neither are brilliant bowlers, although watching Bell a couple of times this season i think he could develop into a Scott Styris kind of bowler with some work. I watched him bowl on the featherbed at Stratford (i thinkk) against Lancs when he was the only bowler to exert any control and look dangerous. I've never seem collingwood look dangerous. With their bowling nothing more than ordinary it comes down to batting and there is no way Collingwood should be above Bell in that case.

Just for Comparison
2004 - Collingwood 322 runs at 29.27, 12 wickets at 37.91 ( Career ave 31.25 batting, 43.72 bowling)
Bell -1525 runs @ 80.26, 15 wickets at 23.06 ( Career 43.25 batting, 32.21 bowling)

So little to choose from in the bowling, Bell clearly the better batsman (going by statistics :))
 

Dar

School Boy/Girl Captain
Can't beleive they chose Collingwood over Bell, i don't rate Collingwood very highly
 

steds

Hall of Fame Member
Dar said:
Can't beleive they chose Collingwood over Bell, i don't rate Collingwood very highly
I'll be able to listen to you say that when you've score an ODI century
 

BoyBrumby

Englishman
steds said:
I'll be able to listen to you say that when you've score an ODI century
Not sure that kinda "don't criticise unless you can do it yourself" argument holds much water.

If I were limited to criticising cricketers that I was a better player than the list would be pretty non-existent! :D

Collingwood is a decent county pro, and thoroughly nice bloke too, but his selection was at best conservative. He's nominally been taken as our no 2 all-rounder, but if (God forbid) Fred's heel flares up again Jon Lewis or Ian Bell will be on the first flight to SA & Collingwood still won't be in the team.
 

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