England squad named

[chris.hinton]

will England pick 4-5 Seamers in each test

team could be

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Harmison
Hoggard
Anderson


Long tail? but i can see them going into a teast with this

 

[Rik]

will England pick 4-5 Seamers in each test

team could be

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Harmison
Hoggard
Anderson


Long tail? but i can see them going into a teast with this

I can't. They will pick Giles whatever, the pitch doesn't matter. They'll just use the "variation" arguement.

 

[Bazza]

I'm confused. Firstly how is that a long tail when you have six batsmen, an all rounder at seven and a wicketkeeper at eight?? It's a weak tail but not a long one. A long tail starts at seven.

As for Giles, too right he should play - West Indies has the most spin-friendly pitches outside the subcontinent, so it will look more like:

Trescothick
Vaughan
Butcher
Hussain
Thorpe
Flintoff
Read
Giles
Jones (if fit)/Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson

Now that is a weak tail, but hopefully a decent pace attack and strongish batting. Collingwood should wait (Hussain or Thorpe could be out if they have a bad series), Batty is useless and Clarke has little to offer. Jones could play if Read doesn't get runs.

 

[marc71178]

I just cant quite work out how Simon Jones worked himself up the pecking order when he hasnt done much at international level.

At International Level he's performed well IMO, but not at county level.

 

[marc71178]

Jones (if fit)/Hoggard
Harmison
Anderson

Now that is a weak tail

If it's Jones I don't think it's that weak a number 9, and Giles is a very capable number 8.

 

[Craig]

That makes him about as quick as Brett Lee anyway (because Lee is about 10km below his own peak pace anyway).

Well, on his debut against India he bowled a few balls which were witheringly quick - and remember, he didn't get the new ball. His first-innings dismissals weren't much to write home about (Ratra and AA) but he did for them both with fast, short deliveries. In the second innings, he came on first change and straight away blasted Sehwag out with one of the fastest balls I've seen by an Englishman since Alan Ward (you won't remember him).

His second test was the one he got injured in, having just got rid of Langer and bowled just one spell as first change.

Where do you get your information on his speed from? Is it because Cricinfo describe him as 'medium fast' on his player page?

No. In a Brisbane paper we buy on Sunday's it had all speeds and that and Jones is 10km per hour slower then Lee at full pace.

I would stay he is esitmated be 140-145km per hour (that's off the top of my head).

 

[Craig]

At International Level he's performed well IMO, but not at county level.

Then how on earth does he make the England side then?

LE got a link to Alan Ward's profile?

 

[luckyeddie]

LE got a link to Alan Ward's profile?

There isn't one on Cricinfo other than his stats - not much of a test career, I'm afraid.

He came into the side on the back of some great performances in the CC at 21 in 1969, did really well against New Zealand then got injured.

He came back a couple of years later only to walk straight into Zaheer Abbas - this produced a 5-year absence from the test side.

One more test in 1976 (4 wickets at Brett Lee average) against the West Indies was his swansong. The pace and movement had gone - as had his career.

Another injury the following year and retirement followed shortly after.

In his early days, he was lightning.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

As for Giles, too right he should play - West Indies has the most spin-friendly pitches outside the subcontinent

Which doesn't say much considering that the West Indies is not spin-friendly.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Then how on earth does he make the England side then?

Dwayne Smith, Omari Banks, Hamish Marshall and many many more. If you're getting the job done in the Tests and ODI's I really don't a give a crap how you do in domestic cricket.

 

[Rik]

At International Level he's performed well IMO, but not at county level.

In 2002 he took 33 wickets in 10 games at 26.36, 40 at 27.52 in 13 FC games (including his Test). He was picked on a hunch because he seemed a totally different bowler and was performing. But really that's his only season he's performed in and he missed the entire 2003 season. He's also never lasted a full CC campagne.

Compared to Stev0 (Harmison) who has been played a lot more:

1998: 51 Wickets at 30.29 in 14 FC games
1999: 64 Wickets at 27.73 in 17 FC games
2000: 26 Wickets at 31.61 in 11 FC games
2001: 35 Wickets at 36.05 in 12 FC games
2002: 33 Wickets at 30.33 in 11 FC games
2003: 37 Wickets at 27.08 in 11 FC games (5 CC, 6 Tests)

Stev0 has been very inconsistant in FC cricket, in the CC, and seems to have performed worse the closer he has got to the England team, with the exception of 2003 in which he took 19 Wickets at 23.21 in 5 CC matches, and 18 in the 6 Tests, knocked down by 9 very cheap wickets against Zimbabwe.

Neither have really performed in CC, or to be fair, in Tests yet, although that is harsh on Jones who has played only 1 1/10 Tests and was injured from half way through his debut. I'm far more impressed with the claims of James Kirtley who's taken tons of wickets at County Level and game into the England side against South Africa, won his debut match and ended up the best seamer in the series for England, and also bowled well in Sri Lanka, ending up, in my mind, as the best seamer for England, though as per usual with Sri Lankan conditions, he only took wickets with the new ball, but he kept plugging away with the old one. Flintoff came on and picked up the wickets but I feel Kirtley frustrated the batsmen into going after Freddie.

I'm not sold on either of our "Pace Aces" although Jones has done well, but he'll allways be a strike bowler, and maybe a tad expensive.

Stev0's stats show a massive difference between performances against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe (teams that would struggle in the CC), and Australia, South Africa, and of course just the one Test against India. It's allright arguing that he's got the best record of any England seamer, but I don't think that's got any relevence, against teams who have good batting lineups he's been pretty woefull and we need players who can take wickets against the best, not just bully the weak teams. Maybe Jones might be that man, he could do anything or nothing. Kirtley, Saggers and Johnson will be solid bowlers, who I'm pretty sure will perform better than either of the 2 "Fast" bowlers, but not get the credit.

 

[Craig]

Dwayne Smith, Omari Banks, Hamish Marshall and many many more. If you're getting the job done in the Tests and ODI's I really don't a give a crap how you do in domestic cricket.

Do tell me what Omari Banks has done at Test level with the ball?

You cant seriously say Dwayne SMith has he has only played one Test.

Re: pitches - IMO Guyana, St Johns and Trinidad produce spinner friendly type wickets

 

[Tim]

Banks helped the West Indies win or draw a number of matches thanks to his ability to bat. If he can work on his spin, then he'll be a valuable asset to the West Indies for sure.

 

[Craig]

But my question was with the ball, not the bat.

 

[RMF]

i oly saw i simon jones delivery and it was 145kmh???

 

[Craig]

Sorry what was that?

 

[marc71178]

Sorry what was that?

That's what the batsman said when it flew past him!

 

[luckyeddie]

Excellent comments, Rik - however, you are not likely to see the best of the likes of Kirtley, Saggers, Johnson and maybe even Anderson on their own - far better to have them bowling with a speedster at the other end.

I've always advocated that any side must have one out-and-out strike bowler - England toyed with Anderson in that role because of necessity but he isn't experienced enough (yet) to fulfil that role.

Harmison and/or Jones could be a godsend for England because they have height, bounce and of course the 'hurry-up' quality.

Of course, they could also end up being useless or just disappear through injury. Either way, the tour of the West Indies is going to prove to be interesting.

 

[Craig]

I knew Anderson would get picked if fit after some of his feats in the WC.

He was perhaps better off a 2nd season in CC.

 

[Richard]

Dwayne Smith, Omari Banks, Hamish Marshall and many many more. If you're getting the job done in the Tests and ODI's I really don't a give a crap how you do in domestic cricket.

So Smith, on one Test, now counts to the outnumbered group, so does Marshall who has played a handful of ODIs.
And Banks hasn't exactly been a success in Tests, either.