Dravid goes to number 1 in test ratings

[marc71178]

So he is certainly the most valuable player of all currently playing, especially when you consider his contributions with the ball as well.

He doesn't contribute with the ball any more though.

 

[mavric41]

Its good to see that a quality batsman like Dravid has his time in the sun to shine.

 

[social]

Should have said BATSMAN, but yes solely on runs.


So an average of 45 doesn't make you a better batsman than someone who averages 39 with strike rate of 68 in ODIs?

And there isn't much difference in their test career stats that will clearly convince you as to who is the better batsman, but still in Kallis's last 17 test matches, he's scored 1969 runs at an amazing average of 82.

And lastly, it was Kallis holding the no 1 spot before Dravid took it, and that's because he is currently playing against Pakistan. And I'm sure once South Africa go on a tour/ play a series, Kallis will grab it back.

So he is certainly the most valuable player of all currently playing, especially when you consider his contributions with the ball as well.

We're only talking about test batting here, nothing else.

And BTW, Gilchrist is the most valuable player today by the length of the street.

 

[social]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

Why? Kallis has a better technique and scores a shed-load of runs.

 

[Anil]

Why? Kallis has a better technique and scores a shed-load of runs.

highly debatable...on what criteria are you judging that kallis has a better technique? not saying he doesn't have a very good technique but especially against spin, i would argue that dravid's is better...

 

[aussie]

aussie

Why? Kallis has a better technique and scores a shed-load of runs.

nah dravid has a better technique, and over the past 2 or 3 years or so both have scored almost a huge amount of runs for their sides. I'd say their pretty close when it comes to runs scored over the last few seasons.

 

[social]

highly debatable...on what criteria are you judging that kallis has a better technique? not saying he doesn't have a very good technique but especially against spin, i would argue that dravid's is better...

Dravid might have a better technique against spin but as a sub-continent player, you would expect him to be more comfortable against that form of bowling.

However, Dravid consistently plays with an angled bat on the back foot and, as a result, gets a lot of inside edges and is occasionaly dismissed because of it (Gillespie and McGrath exposed him this way on Aus' last tour to India). As his record would suggest, it is obviously not something that is exposed all that often but is a weakness nonetheless.

Kallis has the more classical technique (except for the stance) and is almost perfect in his execution of most shots.

I am not saying that one player is better than the other - they are both magnificent. However, those people that say Dravid is the best player in the world BY SOME DISTANCE are giving far too much credit. In fact, the vast majority of cricket watchers would not regard him as the best player in India.

 

[Dasa]

In fact, the vast majority of cricket watchers would not regard him as the best player in India.

What does that matter? The 'vast majority of cricket watchers' would think Brett Lee is the best bowler in the world, doesn't make them right.
Dravid has performed under all conditions against all attacks, unlike Kallis. For me, Dravid is the most valuable Test batsman around.

 

[aussie]

aussie

What does that matter? The 'vast majority of cricket watchers' would think Brett Lee is the best bowler in the world, doesn't make them right.
Dravid has performed under all conditions against all attacks, unlike Kallis. For me, Dravid is the most valuable Test batsman around.

hasn't kallis made runs in all conditons againts all attacks

 

[C_C]

Kallis has a DECENT technique....he plays spin bowling very gingerly and against extremely fast bowling, he is pretty darn clumsy.....overall, Dravid has better positioning and a much stiller head than Kallis.....ofcourse, Sehwag has the stillest head of them all which is why he gets away with dodgy footwork......Dravid at point of contact also has a superior balance to Kallis....and unlike Dravid, Kallis has routinely come up short against quality fast bowling....
he averages in the low 30s against AUS,PAK and WI before retirement of Walsh and Ambrose....he has had one or two good series against quality fast bowling but has failed a LOT more often.I consider Kallis, alongside Hayden to be the biggest bullys of mediocre bowling who come up short against quality bowling.....Dravid however, was successful against good/great bowling aswell.

If dravid has a problem with the angled bat, kallis has a genuine problem with yorkers....
I've watched cricket live for years and tapes from the 70s and 80s.....and the two most perfect technicians i've ever seen are gavaskar and dravid.......and iwould give the edge to dravid....he is the best technician of the last 30 years or so.

 

[social]

What does that matter? The 'vast majority of cricket watchers' would think Brett Lee is the best bowler in the world, doesn't make them right.
Dravid has performed under all conditions against all attacks, unlike Kallis. For me, Dravid is the most valuable Test batsman around.

The most "valuable" test batsman is Gilchrist.

Sehwag can be interchageable with Hayden or Langer or even Gibbs.

Dravid is interchangeable with Ponting or Kallis

Tendulkar is interchageable with Lara

etc, etc

Gilchrist has no peer or someone even remotely close to it.

 

[aussie]

I consider Kallis, alongside Hayden to be the biggest bullys of mediocre bowling who come up short against quality bowling

Really?, i tend to disagree mate kallis has made runs againts australia and runs in the sub-continent, while hayden has made runs againts all bowlers good and bad since he cemeted his place in the australian its only recently matt`` the runs machine`` has gone off the boil a bit

 

[aussie]

aussie

For me, Dravid is the most valuable Test batsman around.

ahhhhhhh mate, one can argue over that but i would say the most valuable batsman in world cricket in Gilchrist, i would term dravid to be one of the most dependable batsmen in world cricket

 

[social]

hasn't kallis made runs in all conditons againts all attacks

Neither batsman has scored runs consistently against Warne and McGrath - no great disgrace.

Dravid's overall record against Aus is "padded" by one brilliant series where neither Warne or McGrath played AND Gillespie and Lee were half-fit.

Other than his 180 in India (where he was completely over-shadowed by Laxman and could/should have been out half a dozen times before 50), he has been relatively ordinary vs Aus.

Similarly, Kallis' record vs Aus is substantially inferior to his overall career record.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

They seem fairly accurate to me as a guide to who the form cricketers are . What's your problem with them?

They don't agree with his pre-concieved ideas about who the good and bad cricketers are. For example, the ratings believe that McGrath is a good bowler.

 

[social]

If dravid has a problem with the angled bat, kallis has a genuine problem with yorkers....

I've watched cricket live for years and tapes from the 70s and 80s.....and the two most perfect technicians i've ever seen are gavaskar and dravid.......and iwould give the edge to dravid....he is the best technician of the last 30 years or so.

You can take yorkers out of the equation as it is the only delivery, when delivered at pace, where the batsman has no control over the delivery. This is because at some point it the delivery, the ball disappears from a batsman's line of sight.

In relation to perfect technique, it depends upon whether you're talking text-book or efficiency.

If it's text book, then guys like Boycott and even Bill Athey (beautiful technique, shame about the performances) are right up there.

If you're talking about efficiency (recognise your limitations and perfect your technique around them) then players like Border, Steve Waugh, etc were also master technicians.

 

[sledger]

Why? Kallis has a better technique and scores a shed-load of runs.

better technique ?? you have to be joking, dravid is the most technically correct batsman in the world. he is quite simply the best that you can wich for in terms of text book style. he is the one player i would have bat for my life. nobody else would come close to getting that confience

 

[C_C]

The most "valuable" test batsman is Gilchrist.

Sehwag can be interchageable with Hayden or Langer or even Gibbs.

Dravid is interchangeable with Ponting or Kallis

Tendulkar is interchageable with Lara

etc, etc

Gilchrist has no peer or someone even remotely close to it.

As purely a batsman, Gillchrist is not in the Ponting-Dravid class, let alone Lara-Tendulkar class....Gilly doesnt figure into the equation for most 'valuable' test batsman...
however, i think he is the most valuable test PLAYER because he shoulders another fundamental responsibility : wicketkeeping.

Really?, i tend to disagree mate kallis has made runs againts australia and runs in the sub-continent, while hayden has made runs againts all bowlers good and bad since he cemeted his place in the australian its only recently matt`` the runs machine`` has gone off the boil a bit

hayden has made runs against all bowlers ? dude he got humbled by Ambrose and Walsh, Donald, Pollock etc and did jack diddly squat against excellent bowling till his monumental series against RSA in 2001...and since then he has faced only the two Ws way way past their best once in terms of good bowling...you forget - hayden got dropped because he couldnt play quality pace bowling in the first place and still cant- struggled mightily against Akhtar in the recent series.

As per Kallis making runs against OZ....sure he has had ONE good series outta 4 against OZ and has a career average of 32.61 vs the Aussies...and a solitary century to show for it....

until Kallis scores well against a high class attack with any regularity, i am not gonna put him in the Ponting-Dravid-Tendulkar-Lara bracket........they have done well consistently against atleast ONE ( or in some of the players cases) multiple team with a high class attack ( AUS,WI,PAK,RSA)...Kallis hasnt against any highclass attack.

 

[C_C]

You can take yorkers out of the equation as it is the only delivery, when delivered at pace, where the batsman has no control over the delivery.

Incorrect..it is a difficult delivery to play but batsmen DO have control over it

In relation to perfect technique, it depends upon whether you're talking text-book or efficiency.

If it's text book, then guys like Boycott and even Bill Athey (beautiful technique, shame about the performances) are right up there.

that is what i mean by perfect technique and while Boycott was excellent too, i rate Dravid as the best in the last 30-odd years followed by Gavaskar who was an obsessive technician.
And in this regard, Kallis isnt even close.
He is far from textbook against quality spin and quality high speed pace bowling...Dravid is sheer elegance all around
.

 

[social]

As purely a batsman, Gillchrist is not in the Ponting-Dravid class, let alone Lara-Tendulkar class....Gilly doesnt figure into the equation for most 'valuable' test batsman...
.

I was not commenting upon the relative merits of Gilchrist as a batsman vis-a-vis Dravid or anyone else other than his direct competitors i.e. no. 6 or 7 batsmen.

Is Dravid a better no. 3 batsman than Gilchrist? Definitely.

Is Dravid irreplaceable at no.3? No

Is Gilchrist irreplaceable at no. 7? Definitely.

Therefore, IMO, Gilchrist is a more "valuable", but not necessarily "better", batsman.