CW decides the 32 best test* opening batsmen of all time - The countdown thread!

[Fuller Pilch]

Given the way Aussie pitches behaved in the 30's I'm very surprised Ponsford's H/A gap is that large.

Also considering his monster SS scores on the same pitches

 

[Fuller Pilch]

So your main point of agreement is boycott ducked Lillee& thomo and the West Indies in 76? Did boycott have special powers (other than being englands greatest opener since 1970) by knowing who Jeff Thompson was? How did he know Lillee would be in prime form after a broken back? He also made plenty of runs against Lillee and Thompson in his career anyway. As for the West Indies in 1976 once again nobody really knew how hostile they were. He made a hundred in the Port of Spain in 1973. Look at him playing Marshall garner holding Croft in England in 1980 and the Caribbean in 1981. True brilliance from a 40 year old man. Perhaps never matched against that attack when they were prime like in 81. Your argument is terrible, not mine. I know my opening batsmen.

Good points Geoffrey.

One century in 1973 in the Windies? There was a gap in thd early 70s when they lacked quality pace. Glen Turner went there in 72 with NZ and scored 2 test doubles, 2 first class doubles, and a test 95.

 

[England First]

You’ve missed the point. I brought up the 73 ton in West Indies to prove the point that boycott wasn’t ducking the West Indies quicks when he removed himself in 74. Why would he have? Boycott was one of the bravest bats of all time. Only seen Steve Waugh tougher to be honest.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Good points Geoffrey.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

He also made plenty of runs against Lillee and Thompson in his career anyway.

Sorry Geoffrey, but you played all of one match against an attack with both Lillee and Thomson, and were out for no score in the first innings. Furthermore, if you had batted faster than 34.73, you might have been able to get that second-innings century rather than being stranded on 99 not out.

 

[England First]

“Geoffrey” made 3 tons against Dennis Lillee and 2 against Jeff Thompson in his career. Unfortunately for you that is FACT.
Your efforts in devaluing boycotts career are going very badly for you. Keep trying to compare him with bill Lawry and see how that gos for you. And by the way I like Bill Lawry but boycott is streets ahead. The attacks boycott faced are some of the best ever. Bill not quite so.

Ps I’ve done you again haven’t I?

 

[Line and Length]

Keep trying to compare him with bill Lawry

No-one, apart from me, has made a Boycott/Lawry comparison and I mentioned them in the same breath as they both were resolute when it come to their attitude to batting - neither cared for overly flamboyant stroke play.
By all means defend Boycott's record but forget how I brought Boycott and Lawry up as a comparison - it was about attitude and application, not about performance and ability.

 

[stephen]

I'm still failing to see how Boycott is streets ahead of Lawry. At best he was a little bit better than Lawry.

 

[stephen]

Lawry made hundreds against very strong attacks. Here's one against Trueman, Statham and Lock, in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-england-1961

And another against Statham and Trueman in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-4th-test-australia-tour-of-england-1961

Another against a P Pollock lead South Africa:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...d-test-south-africa-tour-of-australia-1963-64

A double ton against Hall, Griffith, Sobers and Gibbs:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...th-test-australia-tour-of-west-indies-1964-65

One against Snow and Underwood in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-5th-test-australia-tour-of-england-1968

And his final test hundred against the same West Indian attack as the earlier link:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...th-test-west-indies-tour-of-australia-1968-69

Bill Lawry faced attacks at least as good as Boycott and scored big runs against them.

 

[NotMcKenzie]

“Geoffrey” made 3 tons against Dennis Lillee and 2 against Jeff Thompson in his career. Unfortunately for you that is FACT.
Your efforts in devaluing boycotts career are going very badly for you. Keep trying to compare him with bill Lawry and see how that gos for you. And by the way I like Bill Lawry but boycott is streets ahead. The attacks boycott faced are some of the best ever. Bill not quite so.

Ps I’ve done you again haven’t I?

I've never compared the two (till this post); of course in your posting, 'you' seems to mean every other poster without differentiation.

Yes, Boycott scored three centuries when Lillee was playing, once in 1971 (Lillee's debut), once in 1980 (Centenary test), and one in 1980 (out in 2nd innings, l.b.w. b. Lillee, 0): he played 13 matches against Lillee overall. And two when Thomson was playing (and Lillee was not playing due to injury in either match) in 1977. He only played Thomson four times.

I have zero problem with describing Boycott as a very good or great opener with a good record against Australia and the West Indies even if their attacks were somewhat weaker than one may think, and he performed very well in 1977 against an attack led by Thomson, but saying that 'He also made plenty of runs against Lillee and Thompson in his career anyway,' is a bit misleading, not that I'd expect you to have any nuance whatsoever.


If we want to compare Boycott and Lawry, we can do a rough head-to-head of the strongest sides they played during the period when they were both playing: against South Africa, Boycott averaged 37.3 vs Lawry 36.5, against the West Indians of that period, Boycott 48.36 vs Lawry 69.00. All the other sides have too little overlap.

Given their similar overall test averages as well, I'd say that they were probably about even.

 

[mr_mister]

No-one, apart from me, has made a Boycott/Lawry comparison and I mentioned them in the same breath as they both were resolute when it come to their attitude to batting - neither cared for overly flamboyant stroke play.
By all means defend Boycott's record but forget how I brought Boycott and Lawry up as a comparison - it was about attitude and application, not about performance and ability.

I drew a comparison in my Lawry write-up

 

[Line and Length]

My apologies. A senior's moment!

 

[Tom Flint]

Lillee and Thompson were ducking boycott

 

[h_hurricane]

Lawry made hundreds against very strong attacks. Here's one against Trueman, Statham and Lock, in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-2nd-test-australia-tour-of-england-1961

And another against Statham and Trueman in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-4th-test-australia-tour-of-england-1961

Another against a P Pollock lead South Africa:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...d-test-south-africa-tour-of-australia-1963-64

A double ton against Hall, Griffith, Sobers and Gibbs:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...th-test-australia-tour-of-west-indies-1964-65

One against Snow and Underwood in England:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...ralia-5th-test-australia-tour-of-england-1968

And his final test hundred against the same West Indian attack as the earlier link:

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series...th-test-west-indies-tour-of-australia-1968-69

Bill Lawry faced attacks at least as good as Boycott and scored big runs against them.

Every highly rated batsman in history has scored hundreds against strong attacks, except of course Gavaskar.

 

[Burgey]

You’ve missed the point. I brought up the 73 ton in West Indies to prove the point that boycott wasn’t ducking the West Indies quicks when he removed himself in 74. Why would he have? Boycott was one of the bravest bats of all time. Only seen Steve Waugh tougher to be honest.

Bish, pls. Did you miss the ****ing 1980s?

Also, Jeff Thompson never played for Australia. Jeff Thomson, however, was arguably the fastest bowler of all time.

 

[stephen]

Every highly rated batsman in history has scored hundreds against strong attacks, except of course Gavaskar.

England First was implying that Lawry never faced strong attacks, unlike Boycott. Just some evidence to the contrary.

 

[Burgey]

So your main point of agreement is boycott ducked Lillee& thomo and the West Indies in 76? Did boycott have special powers (other than being englands greatest opener since 1970) by knowing who Jeff Thompson was? How did he know Lillee would be in prime form after a broken back? He also made plenty of runs against Lillee and Thompson in his career anyway. As for the West Indies in 1976 once again nobody really knew how hostile they were. He made a hundred in the Port of Spain in 1973. Look at him playing Marshall garner holding Croft in England in 1980 and the Caribbean in 1981. True brilliance from a 40 year old man. Perhaps never matched against that attack when they were prime like in 81. Your argument is terrible, not mine. I know my opening batsmen.

You don't know **** from clay mate.

 

[Burgey]

Every highly rated batsman in history has scored hundreds against strong attacks, except of course Gavaskar.

Y so defensive?

 

[h_hurricane]

Y so defensive?

It is interesting to see Stephen bringing up the good knocks every time we speak of an Aussie cricketer (Lawry in this case or Hayden in the other forum), but chooses to focus on the easier series which batsmen from other countries had(for instance 1971 series for Gavaskar).

I wouldn't get into the debate on Lawry vs Boycott though. Both belong to the same ballpark for me, give or take a few millimeters here and there.

On a different note, Lawry was immensely lovable as a commentator. Boycott was and probably still is a poor human.

 

[Burgey]

Fair enough, I got the impression in this instance he was responding to specific point.

I'm just waiting til we find out whose multi England First is.