Choose the two opening bowlers for Post Packer World XI

[Precambrian]

McGrath indeed ahead of Hadlee.

 

[archie mac]

thought as much. but wasn't sure if you'd rank him with the other big names you've got on the list. will read up on this guy.

Much like Hadlee he carried the NZ team of his time, but more often with both bat and ball

 

[The Sean]

Outstanding skipper too, by all accounts. I'd have him as captain of my All Time NZ XI.

 

[archie mac]

Outstanding skipper too, by all accounts. I'd have him as captain of my All Time NZ XI.

me also, had a lot of draws, but it was a different era, and you have the impression that the NZ team of the time counted them as good as wins

 

[bagapath]

Much like Hadlee he carried the NZ team of his time, but more often with both bat and ball

just went through his stats and read a few articles. obviously a wonderful cricketer. as an all-rounder you'd probably club him with armstrong and rhodes - reliable bats and fourth/fifth bowlers.

i see hadlee clearly as a bowling all-rounder - pollock, benaud, lindwall, akram kind.

 

[archie mac]

just went through his stats and read a few articles. obviously a wonderful cricketer. as an all-rounder you'd probably club him with armstrong and rhodes - reliable bats and fourth/fifth bowlers.

i see hadlee clearly as a bowling all-rounder - pollock, benaud, lindwall, akram kind.

I would agree with your assessment (spelling)

 

[archie mac]

Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion on why Hadlee was not given the captaincy?

 

[Lillian Thomson]

But that's the point, he was an extremely good all-rounder, behind only (arguably) Sobers, Imran and Kallis.

You forgot Miller.

.............and Botham. It's a toss up between Imran and Botham for the Number 6 slot in this team.

 

[Precambrian]

.............and Botham. It's a toss up between Imran and Botham for the Number 6 slot in this team.

Between Botham and Imran, with due regard to Botham, most people would go for Imran.

 

[archie mac]

Between Botham and Imran, with due regard to Botham, most people would go for Imran.

Although I wonder what the vote will be from those who watched both?

 

[bagapath]

Do you (or anyone else) have an opinion on why Hadlee was not given the captaincy?

I guess he was always seen as a selfish cricketer who didn't get along well with all his teammates. i remember reading somewhere that he and his skipper in the mid 80s, jeremey coney, were not even in talking terms. in fact, when coney used to pull off amazing catches off hadlee's bowling they would individually celebrate with others but never even shake hands or exchange high-fives. handling their politics must've been tough for players like wright and crowe - who do you side with, skipper or the greatest player of your country's history? thankfully, they somehow manged to put such differences aside and new zealand had a very successful few years with these guys showing they way when they refused to lose to west indies and beat australia (twice if i remember correctly).

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Although I wonder what the vote will be from those who watched both?

I would still marginally go for Imran even though for much of his career he was no where near good enough to bat at Number 6. In his prime Botham could have batted at 4 or 5 but sadly his prime was short lived and he didn't reach the heights he was capable of.

 

[Precambrian]

I would still marginally go for Imran even though for much of his career he was no where near good enough to bat at Number 6. In his prime Botham could have batted at 4 or 5 but sadly his prime was short lived and he didn't reach the heights he was capable of.

Imran averaged 55 at No.4 (4 tests) and 62 at No.5 (20 tests) in test matches. The latter is Mike Husseyesque.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Imran averaged 55 at No.4 (4 tests) and 62 at No.5 (20 tests) in test matches. The latter is Mike Husseyesque.

That's why I said for "much of his career". Through sheer hard work he turned himself into a useful batsman. For "much of his career" he was no more than a useful number 7 or 8.

 

[Precambrian]

Disagree. The fact that he had to bat at No.7 for a majority of his career should no way be interpreted as he was no good to bat above that.

Ask Gilchrist.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Disagree. The fact that he had to bat at No.7 for a majority of his career should no way be interpreted as he was no good to bat above that.

Ask Gilchrist.

Imran's batting success came late in his career. If he was good enough to bat higher earlier he would have - unlike Australia, Pakistan didn't have a string of genuine Test class batsman in their top 6.

 

[Precambrian]

Agreeable, and indeed Imran improved leaps and bounds towards the end of his career.

But there were reasonably brilliant batsmen who could hold their own like Miandad, Shoiab Mohammad, Musthaq Mohammad, Zaheer Abbas, Asif Iqbal, Majid Khan etc who all had better records than Imran.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Agreeable, and indeed Imran improved leaps and bounds towards the end of his career.

But there were reasonably brilliant batsmen who could hold their own like Miandad, Shoiab Mohammad, Musthaq Mohammad, Zaheer Abbas, Asif Iqbal, Majid Khan etc who all had better records than Imran.

There were plenty of quality batsman during Imran's time but the point I was trying to make is there were not enough at any one time to keep him out of the top 6 if he'd been good enough to bat there, whereas Gilchrist batted at 7 only because of the quality available to bat above him.

 

[Precambrian]

Who all were better than Gilly? Reckon Hayden, Ponting, Waugh, and perhaps Hussey for a small period of time? I don't think Jnr, Langer, Martyn, Clarke etc excelled Gilly.

 

[G.I.Joe]

I would still marginally go for Imran even though for much of his career he was no where near good enough to bat at Number 6. In his prime Botham could have batted at 4 or 5 but sadly his prime was short lived and he didn't reach the heights he was capable of.

Imran benefitted from a lot of not-outs too. Botham is comfortably the batsman of the two for mine, even allowing for the fat phase.